just some info about the spread limit games

ive mainly played SL200 since summer of 2010 and the spread limit games are pretty much dead. last year one table of SL200 would be running at least by 5pm on the weekdays...now it starts around 8~9 and ends around 11. there are some weekdays when it doesnt even run. SL100 is full of short stacking nits. boo hoo~

FL 4eva!

its crazy to think this might be the last true A-5 no check raise game left in america. I'm just a kid (24) and I would really love to get to play this game before it completely dies. grandpa is an old draw player and taught me all the gardena games when I was a teenager and just getting into poker.

Out of curiosity is the rule "no check raise at all" or "you can't check a 7 low and raise"? I have played many varieties of lowball, but I can't remember a game I've played in there was no check raise at all.

Of course I have not played much California rules lowball - the only time I can recall doing that is at WSOP when I thought I was sitting down in a NLHE one table satellite and they dealt me 5 cards the first hand. Somehow made it down to 3rd place (but it was not horseshoes so no score).

In single-draw A-5 lowball as played in California, check-raising is not allowed. If you check out of position and a player bets, you can either call or fold.

Independently of this, there is the "must-bet-a-7" rule: After the draw, if you have made a 7 (or better) and the action is checked to you, you must bet your hand, or forfeit any interest in the subsequent action. There are times when it is correct to check a 7 (because your intent is to check-fold), but by and large the rule's effect is, if you've made your hand you have to bet it.

basically, because of the nature of the game a check-raise, if it were allowed is the best possible play with a made 7 or better. This prevents the game from being called "make a 7 and check raise"

like-wise, you have to bet with a 7 or else the game would be called "make a 7 and let the last person to act bluff"

its basically in the same spirit as jacks or better to open.

#borninwrongdecade : /

whoa A-5 hasn't been spread in the WSOP for years was this in the early 90's? also I don't think true california lowball was ever an event, it would make a terrible tournament game. much in the same way there is minor distinction between KCL and nl2-7, there is between CL and A-5

We play "cal lowball" is Sacramento as well, same rules. Our game is a 20 limit "winner leave-it", which basically makes the winner of the previous pot "kill it" or what most outside of LB call "straddle it", this makes it actually play as a $40 limit game, but keeps the time rake at $5/.5hr. Same guys every week, games gonna die with no new faces, but without an entry level game I don't expect anyone to take a shot. Too bad.

"Without an entry-level game"? 20-limit lowball plays about as big as 6-12 LHE.

If you're not familiar with lowball, don't play. You will be eaten up alive. In the 70's and 80's with no internet and no good books on lowball, college students from CAL were destroyed. Very few returned to play.

Nor-Cal style lowball gets played one night a year in Vegas, on the Saturday night of BARGE week at Binion's. I usually play it-the format is 2-3-5 blinds, the bets are $10 straight both before and after the draw. A player can "kill" after receiving their first two cards-they put in $10 and the betting limit increases to $20 for the remainder of that hand. We use a single joker and the sevens rule and all that old-school jazz. Betty Tanenbaum, the wife of the late Barry Tanenbaum (R.I.P.) usually plays. This past August we had TWO tables going. I bet it's been a long time since two table of cash game lowball were running simultaneously in the state of Nevada.

BARGE also has an A-5 lowball tournament. It uses two blinds with a small bet the size of the BB before the draw and a large bet double the BB after the draw. As the WSOP discontinued A-5 lowball several years ago, to my knowledge this is now the de facto world championship of tournament A-5 lowball, making me (BRAG) reigning champ.

I disagree with just about every sentence in this post.

SL200 went at about 1 pm today and frequently gets at least a board check while I'm there at lunch time.

SL100 is about as common as 6/12 LHE (almost always 1 table, usually 2 tables, sometimes 3 tables). SL100 is not full of short stacking nits.

^^ remember what forum we're in. 2p2ers believe anyone with less than 100bb is a short stacker.

There's the "nit" part to take exception with, too.

super disagree.

I am quite the opposite of unfamiliar with lowball. I'm a NLSD specialist and was probably one of the winningest players at my stake (which admittedly was not super high((but not micros either)) on tilt.

limit A-5 is not a terribly complicated game. although I will openly admit I have never played it before, I will also openly admit I am willing to donate a few bets to a dying game to get the chance to play it.

You have never played lowball and you disagree.

You think "limit A-5 is not a terribly complicated game". You would be destroyed in a no 'kill' game. Killing increases the luck factors.

Also must add, speaking of limit lowball.

I had played a decent amount of various lowball games online (triple draw, badugi, even limit single draw A-5 back in the Planet Poker days) before I played live lowball for my first time. I ended up having a physical tell due to my lack of experience handling/discarding in a five card game and one guy was able to exploit that tell.

I agree that limit A-5 is certainly not the most complicated poker variant from a math standpoint, but there's other stuff that comes into play in a B&M setting.

EP limper, EMP raises to $10, LMP calls, BTN calls, EP calls. Flop AT7, EP shoves for $50-60. EMP tanks and calls. LMP tanks and calls. Turn brings 6, and EMP shoves maybe $50 more. LMP tanks and calls. River is 2 or 3.

Flush over flush over set? Flush over straight over set? Flush over set over set?

EMP rolls AQo for top pair, second kicker.
LMP says, "That's good, I missed," and then rolls KJ presumably for some sympathy.
EP quietly mucks.

Absolutely.

I've had the fortune in home games to play some of the regulars who were around when lowball was bigger at Oaks. They are crazy good at reading everything. They don't have to think, they've internalized multiple levels of analysis, and they are experts with physical tells.

architect_dad, you will get eaten alive. But I encourage you to try!

[whoa A-5 hasn't been spread in the WSOP for years was this in the early 90's? also I don't think true california lowball was ever an event, it would make a terrible tournament game. much in the same way there is minor distinction between KCL and nl2-7, there is between CL and A-5[/QUOTE]

Mid 90's I think, but not sure of the year.

these are all good points that I've failed to consider. with the exception of TD and badugi in mixes i've never even played a live draw game and I forgot how much card handling goes on in them. still expect me to sit the game sometime in feb or march when I am in the area

I'm sentimental enough to drop 20 bets to buy the title of "youngest live CL fish in history"

Well, here's a tip: discard in turn. I've dealt draw to people new to playing in cardrooms. They give out so much information by discarding early. Remember, position counts for the draw, too.

did you read my post where I mentioned I was probably the biggest winner at my stake in NLSD on tilt? I'm not a total fish but thanks for the advice!

I said nothing of your skill. I'm sure you're very good, and I have no doubt you'd cream me in a game.

I'm talking about the way you hold yourself at the table. I'm pretty sure you don't have to wait your turn to draw on Tilt. I've seen plenty of otherwise smart people playing fairly high stakes draw games who telegraph like crazy about what they're discarding. They don't even notice they're doing it.

I've been dealing poker a while now, and I've dealt to thousands upon thousands of 25-year old online wunderkinds. They're great at the math of the game, no doubt. But they are by far the worst with table mechanics.

The old regulars, they know how to handle themselves. The casual newbies of any age, they're open to being taught. But all these online players have a mix of confidence and insecurity that's tough to crack. They feel they know everything, so they don't pay attention to others, and most advice is met with defensiveness.

So anyway, just trying to help. I'm sure you're awesome. Good luck.

Obviously what we need is a 2+2 get-together at the Oaks where we convince them to spread low limit lowball for our n00basses.

would you guys be interested in seeing if they would let us spread a self-dealt draw mix for when I come to town? I think it would be a lot of fun to play the old gardena games (jacks to open, lowball, etc). I'd like that a lot more than dropping two NL buyins in a game I realistically have no chance in.

also sorry pfapfap I realize I came off way too over confident in my posts, I'm just defensive cause' everyone assumes young players don't know any games other than NLHE and PLO and im very proud of the work I put it in to learn NLSD.