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Old 07-17-2018, 10:26 AM   #4576
RagingOwl
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by Mr Chip View Post
I think we are saying similar things; the mgr stating he will talk with the other player is odd and it needs to be addressed...thank you for this.
I only made the original post as an interest anecdote/public service announcement. However, since making that post, I've thought about this a little more and now feel more strongly.

I was there. I heard everything. And I felt at the time, and still feel now, that nothing "shady" was going on. As far as I can tell, the player made an honest mistake, and the floorperson did his best to reconcile things to that player's satisfaction. I can say that I'm confident that things are on the up and up because I witnessed it. So don't misconstrue this post as an accusation of anything nefarious.

But what if I wasn't there, and I just heard about this?

No one else at the table saw the camera footage. No one else in the room saw the camera footage. Do we know that the guy checking the camera isn't in kahootz with the player? Do we know what, if any, procedures there are to independently verify the camera footage?

All we have is a guy who "says" he has a full house, and a floor person who says "yeah I went in the back, by myself, and saw the full house. Scout's honor"

That's really not very convincing.

Granted, such a scam is a real long-shot possibility. And every other interaction I've had with Chaser's personnel has been pleasant and professional, so I'm not suspicious of anyone in this particular incident. But I don't speak for everyone.

Mr. Chip, congrats on running a fine establishment, but you got this one wrong. I realize you want to stick up for your employees, and that your/his goal here was to simply "get it right". However, that's really not ok in my opinion.

There's a HUGE difference between a hand that's tabled in the open, in a room with 200 people, and a hand that's only seen by one guy, by himself, in a backroom. And in terms of integrity and fairness, the distinction matters.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:07 PM   #4577
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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I live here so I realize what's around. This isn't a metro area.

Edit - had a whole post typed up but just found out that the Upper Valley is the nation's larges "micro-region". They must be pretty generous with land area for that because no town in the area bigger than 13.5k people but that's something.

The best bet is people swinging through on the way to/from Killington in the winter and the numerous breweries around during the 4 non-winter months up here (I'm exagerrating - the snow melted in late April this year). However, for that the place is going to need better signage and the entrance to the joint building will need to be redone to be more welcoming.

Look, I'm hopeful that this works out in the long run and they can expand. I love having live poker less than 15 minutes from my house but I think it's important to keep expectations realistic.
Yeah - the Upper Valley really is pretty solid in terms of location and possible player pool, with plenty of blue collar types who also happen to make a decent living all things considered.

I think that even more so than the players keeping expectations realistic it sounds like the establishment is doing so. Rather than opening a "Borgata North" (too soon?) they set up shop in a place that can fit 6-8 tables, likely to see if things catch on. Granted, it sounds like they can't really expand in the space they're in, but I've have to think that if the place is a massive hit and filled to capacity on a regular basis that they could quickly scramble pretty quickly to find another location nearby which could accommodate double the number of tables.

Too bad that my planned vacation there next week got shelved, as I would've been there most nights.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:36 AM   #4578
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litre...18/lr24177.htm
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:57 PM   #4579
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by Call...how much? View Post
It appears that penalty was as light as it was (<$10,000), only because no $ was actually raised. If significant $ had been raised and lost, penalties would have been much more severe.
I'm actually surprised that 2+2er's weren't offered the opportunity to invest in Cheers....
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:50 AM   #4580
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Whoa. That is......not good.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:34 AM   #4581
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by Rizzeedizzee View Post
Pretty shady - IMO - marketing of BBC's promotion this weekend. It was advertised as poker plinko where on Saturday and Sunday the ten hourly high hand winners could drop a Plinko chip on a board and win a $500-$10,000, much like how it was advertised back in June (see here: http://www.bostonbilliardclubcasino....-plinko-day-1/).

The catch is there was no $10,000 slot. To win the $10,000 you had to drop it in the lone $2,500 spot four times in a row! But wait - there's more. If you did manage to drop it in the $2,500 spot and opted to try your luck to hit the $2,500 again in order to to continue your quest to get $10,000 and, say, you landed only in a $1,000 spot on your second try, that became your prize instead. So yeah - $10,000 pretty much was impossible, yet it was there quite prominently in the marketing materials.
There's nothing deceptive about the ad. You can win prizes ranging from $500 to $10,000. They have been advertising it in more detail with an infographic elsewhere; I'm not sure why they don't include it in their website. But $500 to $10,000 is the actual range of prize sizes.

Of course, running it up to $10,000 requires dropping it in the $2,500 slot three (not four) times in a row, which requires you to re-gamble your big win twice. Assuming equal probability to hit each slot, it's a 6:1 shot to hit the first $2,500, and 6:1 again to double up to $5,000 (or else you only win whatever you hit), and then 6:1 again to double up to $10,000 (or else you only win $2,500).

Obviously, these are tremendous sucker bets, and you're better off keeping the $2,500 if you hit it, but it's not impossible. It's a 342:1 shot (again, assuming equal probabilities, and as you can see, the house should be fine with them being equal).
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:03 AM   #4582
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by MJ88 View Post
It appears that penalty was as light as it was (<$10,000), only because no $ was actually raised. If significant $ had been raised and lost, penalties would have been much more severe.
I'm actually surprised that 2+2er's weren't offered the opportunity to invest in Cheers....
Technically, everyone was offered an opportunity. I remember looking at his crowd funder page before the room opened and it claimed he had raised over 1 Million.

https://www.crowdfunder.com/user/146937
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:12 AM   #4583
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by Jimulacrum View Post
There's nothing deceptive about the ad. You can win prizes ranging from $500 to $10,000. They have been advertising it in more detail with an infographic elsewhere; I'm not sure why they don't include it in their website. But $500 to $10,000 is the actual range of prize sizes.

Of course, running it up to $10,000 requires dropping it in the $2,500 slot three (not four) times in a row, which requires you to re-gamble your big win twice. Assuming equal probability to hit each slot, it's a 6:1 shot to hit the first $2,500, and 6:1 again to double up to $5,000 (or else you only win whatever you hit), and then 6:1 again to double up to $10,000 (or else you only win $2,500).

Obviously, these are tremendous sucker bets, and you're better off keeping the $2,500 if you hit it, but it's not impossible. It's a 342:1 shot (again, assuming equal probabilities, and as you can see, the house should be fine with them being equal).
I think most people see $10,000 don't assume it's a 342:1 shot to win it. I like BBC as a room a lot, from the separate area for poker to the ample parking, to the staff and dealers, but this promotion took them down a notch in my book.

On an unrelated note, I was a Chasers yesterday and the room was completely full at 5pm. And I mean every....single.....table. When I left I saw some pretty creative parking jobs that could get that place in trouble if a fire marshal showed up.

I also overheard a big to do at the $2/$5 table next to mine where apparently the floor rewarded an angle shoot. Full disclosure - this is from overhearing and it is possible I missed a detail or two, although the player next to me at the table told me he heard it the same way. At the river where there was a called bet a player declared he had a straight, the other player mucked after hearing it was a straight, and the winning player turned over what was not in fact a straight, then gave some excuse about misreading the board. The floor was called and the misdeclarer was still given the pot. I thought in most rooms if you misdeclare your hand at showdown you automatically lose - end of story, or is that not the case? What I don't know is if the other player's hand was retrievable, or whether the floor even considered if that mattered.
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:45 AM   #4584
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by Rizzeedizzee View Post
I think most people see $10,000 don't assume it's a 342:1 shot to win it. I like BBC as a room a lot, from the separate area for poker to the ample parking, to the staff and dealers, but this promotion took them down a notch in my book.
We can't expect them to not claim there are prizes up to $10,000 (because there are), but I agree that they should give more information. In the first promo materials I saw for Poker Plinko, they did give this information very clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzeedizzee View Post
I also overheard a big to do at the $2/$5 table next to mine where apparently the floor rewarded an angle shoot. Full disclosure - this is from overhearing and it is possible I missed a detail or two, although the player next to me at the table told me he heard it the same way. At the river where there was a called bet a player declared he had a straight, the other player mucked after hearing it was a straight, and the winning player turned over what was not in fact a straight, then gave some excuse about misreading the board. The floor was called and the misdeclarer was still given the pot. I thought in most rooms if you misdeclare your hand at showdown you automatically lose - end of story, or is that not the case? What I don't know is if the other player's hand was retrievable, or whether the floor even considered if that mattered.
I'll defer to someone who knows better as to the proper ruling, since the decision may vary based on house rules. BBCC care to chime in?

Sure, maybe the misdeclaring player made an honest mistake, but that's what an angling piece of **** would say too. If it's my choice, he gets a very stern warning, and if he makes one more move that even resembles an angle—like ever, not just that session—he's banned for at least a month.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:08 PM   #4585
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzeedizzee View Post
At the river where there was a called bet a player declared he had a straight, the other player mucked after hearing it was a straight, and the winning player turned over what was not in fact a straight, then gave some excuse about misreading the board. The floor was called and the misdeclarer was still given the pot. I thought in most rooms if you misdeclare your hand at showdown you automatically lose - end of story, or is that not the case? What I don't know is if the other player's hand was retrievable, or whether the floor even considered if that mattered.
Rules 54, 106, and 140 - you don't automatically lose the pot, but management might decide to take it from you and give it to the player(s) that folded if they believe you acted improperly. Depends on your history (if any), whether floor believes it was intentional, etc.

Rule #1 for any player - always protect your hand (including holding onto your cards until a winner has tabled theirs).

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Old 07-23-2018, 12:35 PM   #4586
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Yikes! Looks like it's Chasers from now on. Complete radio silence on Cheers reopening, and that doesn't look good at all.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:53 PM   #4587
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by Jimulacrum View Post
I'll defer to someone who knows better as to the proper ruling, since the decision may vary based on house rules. BBCC care to chime in?

Sure, maybe the misdeclaring player made an honest mistake, but that's what an angling piece of **** would say too. If it's my choice, he gets a very stern warning, and if he makes one more move that even resembles an angle—like ever, not just that session—he's banned for at least a month.
Just to clarify, this was at Chasers, not BBCC. I segued from my initial tidbit about BBCC into stuff about Chasers.
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:20 PM   #4588
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzeedizzee View Post
I think most people see $10,000 don't assume it's a 342:1 shot to win it. I like BBC as a room a lot, from the separate area for poker to the ample parking, to the staff and dealers, but this promotion took them down a notch in my book.

On an unrelated note, I was a Chasers yesterday and the room was completely full at 5pm. And I mean every....single.....table. When I left I saw some pretty creative parking jobs that could get that place in trouble if a fire marshal showed up.

I also overheard a big to do at the $2/$5 table next to mine where apparently the floor rewarded an angle shoot. Full disclosure - this is from overhearing and it is possible I missed a detail or two, although the player next to me at the table told me he heard it the same way. At the river where there was a called bet a player declared he had a straight, the other player mucked after hearing it was a straight, and the winning player turned over what was not in fact a straight, then gave some excuse about misreading the board. The floor was called and the misdeclarer was still given the pot. I thought in most rooms if you misdeclare your hand at showdown you automatically lose - end of story, or is that not the case? What I don't know is if the other player's hand was retrievable, or whether the floor even considered if that mattered.
Not the case.
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:30 PM   #4589
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Yeah, I have no sympathy for a playing mucking prematurely. Protect your hands folks and it's not up to the poker room to protect them for you.

Angle shooters suck but in the end, this player only has himself to blame.

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Old 07-23-2018, 05:33 PM   #4590
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

It sucks that you have to, but pretty much any time a player verbally declares without tabling his hand, I get really suspicious. But then I hate the game of showdown where nobody wants to table their hand until they know they have the winner as if this is high stakes poker and anyone is paying attention to what hands you have so they can deconstruct your C-bet-folding range. If I'm at showdown, I table my hand quickly. If I get caught bluffing, so what. Let's get on to the next hand already.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:45 AM   #4591
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Recently when I get caught bluffing I've been silently throwing my hand down face up near the board with great confidence like I am rubbing it in their face, and then I wait the 3-5 seconds until they figure out I have nothing and table their hand.

I especially like doing this with OMC's, but don't ask me why I'm bluffing into OMC's in the first place.
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:18 AM   #4592
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by 27offsuit View Post
Recently when I get caught bluffing I've been silently throwing my hand down face up near the board with great confidence like I am rubbing it in their face, and then I wait the 3-5 seconds until they figure out I have nothing and table their hand.

I especially like doing this with OMC's, but don't ask me why I'm bluffing into OMC's in the first place.
This is exactly what you're supposed to do (except for the bluffing OMC part lol) as part of a players decision is to read the board then decide whether to muck or show. It is the players responsibility to properly read the board. It tilts me to no end when other players announce the hand for the player. I've even seen instances where a dealer has turned over the mucked hand. Insanity.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:14 AM   #4593
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by RhodyGuy View Post
This is exactly what you're supposed to do (except for the bluffing OMC part lol) as part of a players decision is to read the board then decide whether to muck or show. It is the players responsibility to properly read the board. It tilts me to no end when other players announce the hand for the player. I've even seen instances where a dealer has turned over the mucked hand. Insanity.
To be clear, if you're talking about tabled hands it is the responsibility of all players, dealers, and managers to point out an error in the awarding of a pot. So if a player tables their cards, misreads the board, then turns their cards over to muck anyone should correct the error.

If talking about reading someone's hand (or even the board - i.e. "the nuts are on the board") before they table their cards then yes, it is inappropriate for anyone to tell a player what they have or compare it to another player's hand.

As for dealers turning over mucked hands: The hand is not killed until it enters the muck. If a player tabled their hand then turned it face down and mucked it because they misread the board, the tabled hand still speaks and can even be retrieved from the muck by a manager if identifiable. Also, if a player misreads the board and mucks without tabling their hand the hand is still live if it hasn't been killed and can be turned over by the player (or if they can't reach the cards by asking the dealer). This is why dealers should kill mucked cards immediately.

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Old 07-24-2018, 12:06 PM   #4594
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by PokerGuvnA View Post
To be clear, if you're talking about tabled hands it is the responsibility of all players, dealers, and managers to point out an error in the awarding of a pot. So if a player tables their cards, misreads the board, then turns their cards over to muck anyone should correct the error.

If talking about reading someone's hand (or even the board - i.e. "the nuts are on the board") before they table their cards then yes, it is inappropriate for anyone to tell a player what they have or compare it to another player's hand.
I'm referring to situations such as:


a) Board is broadway rainbow, obv a chop. First player tables hand and in HU pot the second player misreads the board and mucks.


b) Board is Kd-Qs-Jh-9s-7c. First player tables 78cc. Second player in tank exposed a K then mucks hand while saying, "Ah you hit your straight"


In both cases it is inappropriate for anyone to say a word. NOW, if player tables KQ and says "Ah you hit your straight" and the dealer begins pushing pot to 78cc then is IS appropriate and the players responsibility in the game to correct the dealer error.


Quote:
As for dealers turning over mucked hands: The hand is not killed until it enters the muck. If a player tabled their hand then turned it face down and mucked it because they misread the board, the tabled hand still speaks and can even be retrieved from the muck by a manager if identifiable. Also, if a player misreads the board and mucks without tabling their hand the hand is still live if it hasn't been killed and can be turned over by the player (or if they can't reach the cards by asking the dealer). This is why dealers should kill mucked cards immediately.
Correct. I'm referring to dealer error scenarios such as the two examples I cited above. Where the dealer has recognized there was a chop and after second player mucks he said, "No that's a chop and turned both mucked cards over and tabled them." Or in b) "There is no straight, your K is good" as he turns both cards face up rather than correctly mucking them while keeping his mouth shut.

(which is now a muck as they have been tabled even if done so incorrectly. btw, I hate this rule as a correctable dealer error should not affect play)
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:24 AM   #4595
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
I think most people see $10,000 don't assume it's a 342:1 shot to win it.
Well, I can't speak for "most people", but my guess would have been a 7-figure number.

What was yours? 50/50?
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:00 AM   #4596
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Well, I can't speak for "most people", but my guess would have been a 7-figure number.

What was yours? 50/50?
Honestly I'd have assumed there was a plinko slot with $10,000 which you're able to win with one drop. Sure - maybe there are far more slots with other amounts leading to low odds of actually winning, but I'd assume one slot indeed had $10,000 in it.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:27 PM   #4597
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

http://www.eagletribune.com/news/new...002c4aec3.html

More Cheers/Puck drama. In the article he says they should be up and running before the end of summer. On his Facebook he said Labor Day. Considering his track record, New Years might be a possibility
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:53 AM   #4598
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Not to be a nit, but Labor Day is before the end of summer.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:56 AM   #4599
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Originally Posted by jpsychlady View Post
http://www.eagletribune.com/news/new...002c4aec3.html

More Cheers/Puck drama. In the article he says they should be up and running before the end of summer. On his Facebook he said Labor Day. Considering his track record, New Years might be a possibility
Paying the fine is one thing, reopening is another. I wouldn't bet on the latter.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:03 AM   #4600
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

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Not to be a nit, but Labor Day is before the end of summer.
Despite your disclaimer and best efforts, you have definitely succeeded in being a nit here....
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