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View Poll Results: Which casino operator would you prefer to get E. Mass. license?
Wynn/Everett? 102 69.86%
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:09 PM   #4001
Lattimer
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Yeah let's not go down the tipping rabbit hole ITT. We contain this topic to that single thread for a reason.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:51 PM   #4002
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny View Post
Am I understanding you guys correctly?

These rooms are raking $7 off the table, but only $2 of that goes to the house, and $5 to the promo funds?
I'm originally from NH and, while I now live in LV, I have followed the rise and fall of the NH rooms with a spirited interest. I have a family member who is involved with a charity, and was quite concerned many years ago when that charity started to see extra "costs" and admin fees deducted from the gross poker revenue for the day, prior to the charity receiving their portion. If memory serves me, the costs may have even been deducted from their percentage, I can't recall.

Since I work in the poker industry, I offered to look into it. Unfortunately she declined, as she didn't want to risk the charity losing favor and being excluded from the rotation. The charities obviously look at this as free fundraising, and don't want to jeopardize that cash flow.

With that said, my assumption, and I stress assumption, on the 2+5 is this. There doesn't have to be a separate promo drop, because there is no segregated promo fund. What they are essentially doing is raising the rake to $7, and then deducting the cost of the promo money given out that day, plus whatever other costs, prior to giving the charity their percentage. On the days that there are no promos, the $2+3 is probably going all to revenue (less the charity cut). It's all smoke and mirrors. And by that I mean that the $3/hand you think is being stored away for another day actually isn't.

Now, there's a chance that they are placing whatever percentage they like of the drop for the day into a P+L line item that they will use in the future for promos, but it can't be the $3/hand that you, the players, think that it is because all the money is mixed together. I'm sure that would be their explanation. But it's quite misleading when advertising $2+3, because only x percentage of the $3 may ever be returned to the players (and that's if they are withholding a percentage for future reinvestment).

I would be interested to know if they legally have to disclose the daily revenue and charity take. That transparency would get to the bottom of it.

Once again, for the record, this is completely my theory and, if correct, I'm sure it's all legal. I'm not accusing anyone of being shady, just lending my thoughts on the matter hoping that someone who understands the intricacies of that market can make sure that everything is on the up and up.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:07 PM   #4003
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Very Josie View Post
Chip Chaser...any possibility of getting a sit-n-go going tonight? Lemme know, I'm in the mood and there doesn't seem to be any being offered anywhere. Thanks!
My son invited me out so I shut down for a while and ended the fun day with watching Black Panther(solid “A”).
So I missed your request. I will offer a sit n go game anytime you want. I’m just not sure it will fill!
Shoot me a request next time and let’s see what happens.
Thanks for thinking of Chasers, I appreciate that very much!
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:29 PM   #4004
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny View Post
Am I understanding you guys correctly?

These rooms are raking $7 off the table, but only $2 of that goes to the house, and $5 to the promo funds?
Here is what Chasers does:

We rake 10%(so $1) of the pot at $10/$20/$30/$40/$50, so a $5 max rake. That is the house rake. This is what the charities get 35% of and the state gets 10% of. We run our business and profit with the remaining 55%.
We are fine with this set up because without the charities I am pretty sure the state would frown on poker rooms. Win/win because the Charities need us and we very much need them.

Player promo rake:
We rake $1 at $20, into a separate player promo rake box. We do this and only this $1 on Monday/Wednesday/Friday/Saturday, all day. We have promos these days but not High Hands.

On Sunday we rake that $1 max from noon-1pm and from 10pm-Close. From 1pm-10pm we will rake a 2nd dollar, but only on pots that reach $40.

On Tuesday we rake the $1 from noon-4pm and from 9pm-close. From 4pm-9pm is the only time we will rake a 2nd dollar and only on pots that reach $40.

On Thursday we rake that $1 max from noon-1pm and from 10pm-Close. From 1pm-10pm we will rake a 2nd dollar, but only on pots that reach $40. Note: we have a High Hand bonus from 10-12:30, but we do NOT rake the 2nd dollar because this is a bonus round.

Lastly, we wanted to be transparent so during the times we rake the 2nd dollar, you will notice we bring yellow $2 chips to the table, clearly announcing we rake the 2nd dollar at $40.

With research I am quite certain you will discover we are the most transparent and we are also one of, or the only room that waits until $40 to rake the 2nd dollar.

I hope this clears up how Chasers handles the rakes.

Thanks.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:20 PM   #4005
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chip View Post
Here is what Chasers does:

Thanks.
Sorry, just to be clear. My earlier post was in regard to the $2+5 that I had heard about from your competitor. That, plus the fact that they were quoted on pokeratlas as confirming that the promo money was not segregated.

I meant to be clear that I was only speaking about that establishment. I apologize if you felt the need to defend Chasers because I wasn't clear.

Carry on.
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Old Yesterday, 12:27 AM   #4006
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoDiddleyMacau View Post
Sorry, just to be clear. My earlier post was in regard to the $2+5 that I had heard about from your competitor. That, plus the fact that they were quoted on pokeratlas as confirming that the promo money was not segregated.

I meant to be clear that I was only speaking about that establishment. I apologize if you felt the need to defend Chasers because I wasn't clear.

Carry on.
I don't know what they're currently doing as I refuse to go back, but what I saw Cheers doing Monday during their first high hand was 10% of every pot up to a max of $7 rake. This was all dropped into one slot and there were no markers indicating how much was for players and how much was for house. When I complained to the manager, he said they take the average at the end of the night and 28% (2/7ths) goes to the house and 72% goes to the players. When they tried opening PLO I asked if that was the $2+3 rake and the manager said that was $2+7 also, but it wasn't participating in the high hand promo. A dealer said this was their standard rake going forward, not just a high hand day rake.

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Old Yesterday, 05:11 AM   #4007
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

games not paying out promo should not be raking promo, seems simple to me.
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Old Yesterday, 05:12 AM   #4008
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

I saw a Cheers review on poker atlas the other day that said they use different chips for rake vs promo drop. So either they changed their M.O. or the guy was full of ****.
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Old Yesterday, 08:03 AM   #4009
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerGuvnA View Post
I don't know what they're currently doing as I refuse to go back, but what I saw Cheers doing Monday during their first high hand was 10% of every pot up to a max of $7 rake. This was all dropped into one slot and there were no markers indicating how much was for players and how much was for house. When I complained to the manager, he said they take the average at the end of the night and 28% (2/7ths) goes to the house and 72% goes to the players. When they tried opening PLO I asked if that was the $2+3 rake and the manager said that was $2+7 also, but it wasn't participating in the high hand promo. A dealer said this was their standard rake going forward, not just a high hand day rake.

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Did you mean to say $2+5, not $2+7? Or is that accurate for PLO there?


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Old Yesterday, 08:52 AM   #4010
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12bigworm81 View Post
Its unsustainable. WAY too many max rake pots with this format. Basically with auto-shufflers about $200 an hour coming off at a 1/2 table.

At least the charity gets $21 of that.
It is very sustainable. Every Florida poker room is 5+2 rake and some even take with no flop. At Magic City in Miami if you open $25 in a 2/5 game and the blinds fold they rake $3 so you don't win the $7 blinds, you win $4. Some others rake $2 in that situation. This was discussed in depth in the Foxwoods thread when they increased from 4+1 earlier in the year. New England players have been spoiled by the industry low rake (along with Vegas market) of 4+1 for many years. This isn't the norm.
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Old Yesterday, 09:06 AM   #4011
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Its sustainable because new money is being pumped into the poker economy. The rake is pretty high. Without that I'd venture the promos are actually taking more money out of the economy. But as its been said this is the current state of poker. I hope when the Wynn opens it'll be similar to Twin River as they won't really have any true competition.
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Old Yesterday, 11:02 AM   #4012
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayer80 View Post
Did you mean to say $2+5, not $2+7? Or is that accurate for PLO there?


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Meant $2+$5, saw that after I submitted but it wouldn't let me edit the post for some reason.

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Old Yesterday, 11:07 AM   #4013
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
I saw a Cheers review on poker atlas the other day that said they use different chips for rake vs promo drop. So either they changed their M.O. or the guy was full of ****.
Well, before Monday I had seen them using non-value chips in the rack (looked like the kind you'd find at the Dollar Store) but then on Monday they weren't using anything. That was one of the things that first made me pay attention - why did they stop using them? And if that review is accurate why did they go back to them after I pointed out the shadiness?

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Old Yesterday, 01:19 PM   #4014
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

I made a 2nd trip to Cheers on Wednesday. I am really trying to give the place a chance....

#1 only 4 cash tables going & 1 tournament of 11 people. As soon as 1 guy got knocked out they said congrats on making the final table(like really??)

#2 The chairs...I was told by a dealer, they are going to put wheels on them to add height. No,no,no...they are uncomfortable! Who cares about the height. I watch multiple people stack them and sit(should not be allowed, ruins them even more). Get rid of them and get new comfortable chairs. Do 1 table at a time...put on the "Feature" streaming tables.

#3 The Auto Shufflers were nice but the dealers, not all, aren't great. They are so damn slow and chatty. It's ok, you are used to being bored but deal faster. Pay attention, control the game.

#4 Not much action, even on a high hand day

#5 Prices on Food were cheap, that was a positive. I got a burger and it was good for $5. The fries, weren't great because of over salted. They reminded me of pretzel sticks with salt all over. For $5, I didn't care as much, but had there been less salt I would've really enjoyed it more.

#6 Wait Staff is hit or miss....a lot of the time felt like it was hassle to get service, with so few people in there.

#7 Bad mouthing Competition...I want this room to succeed as it gives people choices of rooms to pick from. All I heard was sourgrapes over and over from the few Cheers loyalists & employees mainly about Chasers. There is room for all NH poker rooms to coexist in the same space. Just need to realize that major changes need to be made, to be relevant. Also need to lower expectations.

#8 High Hands...anything qualifies, that is great. It was laughable too, sadly the game was so tight. Good on them for trying to draw people in...30K on the 1st week (Monday, Wednesday, Friday, & Saturday) From my perspective it is a losing proposition long term. I went for the gimmick, not going to lie.

#9 Loyalty cards-i had to ask. They said they aren't set up yet for It although tables now have the tablet and swipe system...go figure. I got a temp card only after asking. Didn't accrue anything anyways).


They need to take surveys of people that go.

what is missing?
why aren't people coming in masses?
what do the customers want?

You see such a big space, spread the people out....

Ask if people want to be in a stream table, some may not...

Again, I want this place to improve as it gives other player options. I'm trying to share my experience in hopes it can improve.








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Old Yesterday, 03:54 PM   #4015
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

First time I played poker in NH was at Rockingham. They didn't "drop" the rake, the dealer put it in his tray.

"This is a thief's paradise," I remember thinking.

The idea of dropping promo dollars and rake dollars in the same box???

I don't blame the operator, I blame the state, for thinking this game doesn't require too much oversight because it's "all for charity".

Q: Who is going to oversee the casino operations we just legalized?

A: The folks who oversee horse racing and lottery, they're our gambling experts!

Q: What do they know about casino operations?

A: (just kidding, no one ever asked that question before)
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Old Yesterday, 10:01 PM   #4016
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhodyGuy View Post
It is very sustainable. Every Florida poker room is 5+2 rake and some even take with no flop. At Magic City in Miami if you open $25 in a 2/5 game and the blinds fold they rake $3 so you don't win the $7 blinds, you win $4. Some others rake $2 in that situation. This was discussed in depth in the Foxwoods thread when they increased from 4+1 earlier in the year. New England players have been spoiled by the industry low rake (along with Vegas market) of 4+1 for many years. This isn't the norm.
5+2 and 2+5 aren’t the same. You get to $7 way faster in 2+5.
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Old Yesterday, 10:03 PM   #4017
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
I saw a Cheers review on poker atlas the other day that said they use different chips for rake vs promo drop. So either they changed their M.O. or the guy was full of ****.
The day I went there (1st high hand day) a dealer asked the floor where the promo chips were. They said all one drop. So the review was correct, but it’s changed.
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Old Today, 02:46 AM   #4018
PokerPlayer80
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Re: New England General Discussion - Poker Room List in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by aburns7487 View Post
I made a 2nd trip to Cheers on Wednesday. I am really trying to give the place a chance....

#1 only 4 cash tables going & 1 tournament of 11 people. As soon as 1 guy got knocked out they said congrats on making the final table(like really??)

#2 The chairs...I was told by a dealer, they are going to put wheels on them to add height. No,no,no...they are uncomfortable! Who cares about the height. I watch multiple people stack them and sit(should not be allowed, ruins them even more). Get rid of them and get new comfortable chairs. Do 1 table at a time...put on the "Feature" streaming tables.

#3 The Auto Shufflers were nice but the dealers, not all, aren't great. They are so damn slow and chatty. It's ok, you are used to being bored but deal faster. Pay attention, control the game.

#4 Not much action, even on a high hand day

#5 Prices on Food were cheap, that was a positive. I got a burger and it was good for $5. The fries, weren't great because of over salted. They reminded me of pretzel sticks with salt all over. For $5, I didn't care as much, but had there been less salt I would've really enjoyed it more.

#6 Wait Staff is hit or miss....a lot of the time felt like it was hassle to get service, with so few people in there.

#7 Bad mouthing Competition...I want this room to succeed as it gives people choices of rooms to pick from. All I heard was sourgrapes over and over from the few Cheers loyalists & employees mainly about Chasers. There is room for all NH poker rooms to coexist in the same space. Just need to realize that major changes need to be made, to be relevant. Also need to lower expectations.

#8 High Hands...anything qualifies, that is great. It was laughable too, sadly the game was so tight. Good on them for trying to draw people in...30K on the 1st week (Monday, Wednesday, Friday, & Saturday) From my perspective it is a losing proposition long term. I went for the gimmick, not going to lie.

#9 Loyalty cards-i had to ask. They said they aren't set up yet for It although tables now have the tablet and swipe system...go figure. I got a temp card only after asking. Didn't accrue anything anyways).


They need to take surveys of people that go.

what is missing?
why aren't people coming in masses?
what do the customers want?

You see such a big space, spread the people out....

Ask if people want to be in a stream table, some may not...

Again, I want this place to improve as it gives other player options. I'm trying to share my experience in hopes it can improve.








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Was there tonight. They had 9 or so cash tables going for most of the day, plus the pits were packed. Seems like they are building some momentum for sure.


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