Mississippi straddle is the hated nemesis of the OMC!

I just typed up a long post explaining why it's bad...but then I realized I'm a limit player. I don't play much NL, and it's entirely possible all my fears aren't as pronounced in the NL game, which sees far fewer multi-way pots any way.

Lucky for you guys I came to this realization before posting that block of text. Instead, I'll share an amusing story:

I visited Las Vegas in 2009, my first time there since I had moved out of town ten years earlier. I bought into a $2-4 LHE game on the Strip. This game featured the MS Straddle, I was told: you could straddle UTG or OTB.

YTF: Um, guys, that's not the MS Straddle. The MS Straddle is from ANY position except the blinds; and is never used in limit poker, only PL and NL.

THEM: Don't tell us about poker! We work and play on the Las Vegas Strip! We're the experts on poker!

YTF: Oh yeah? Well, I deal poker IN MISSISSIPPI! I've been there almost ten years now, and I imagine I'm slightly more versed in the nuances of the Mississippi straddle than those of you who have never set foot in Mississippi.

(They were unswayed.)

Heard a great suggestion at the table today. Allow the button straddle at 2/4 only. I can understand and appreciate while at 1/2 this might turn off some players. Win-win in my opinion.

Button straddle kills action. UTG straddle creates action.

If available it would be less than optimal strategy not to straddle on your button. The same cannot be said for straddling UTG.

I'm around a regular button straddle game that goes something like this:

1/2 with 15 on the button.
Call, call, raise to 60.
Call, folds to button, call.
Call, call.
300 in the pot and we're on to the flop!

The problem with this is that then you are left with the choice of either the 1-2 game or 2-4 with most people button straddling, which essentially makes the game play like a 5-10. The players who liked the 2-4 game the way it was lose out. The choices become lo stakes, or high stakes, with no middle stakes.

Very good point. I'm not a fan of it and my main game is 1/2 so I know it doesn't work there for people. It also created alot of confusion for dealers and players slowing down the game. Makes me feel better about my weekend too. Guess I didn't lose that much for a 5-10 game.

There's always Chip's idea of 1-3NL middle ground, which I had shot down but might make sense if 2-4 is button straddleable

Played at Chasers on opening night and here's a few of my observations. I don't want to judge Chasers (or any other room for that matter) based on their opening night performance, but there are observations that indicate certain qualities of the room.

Ownership clearly cares about the customers. It's not easy opening Day 1 to many customers and they did their very best to provide a great gaming atmosphere. I saw ownership offering free pizza at the end of the night and that was nice. I didn't try any, but others said it was good. I also had a couple of floor guys come around and ask for feedback which I thought was great. They tried adjusting the lighting for the room at the request of the players. So it clearly showed they were trying to keep us happy and that didn't go unnoticed.

Button Straddle was allowed as others pointed out, but one of the floor guys said it would probably be disallowed on Saturday, which it sounds like it was. I think that it should be allowed, but only at games where it's designated. Meaning, there should be a 1/2NL or a 2/4NL of PLO that strictly allows the button straddle (and it is a separate game listed on the waiting list)

I played in the 2/4NL, the 1/2NL and the 2/4/10PLO games. Yes you read that right 2/4/10 PLO, it was a mandatory button straddle. There was a lot of money on the table. Games ran smooth for the most part. Action sucked at the 2/4 NL table that I was at and it was hard to get to the "good tables" which is why I jumped to 1/2NL and then 2/4/10 PLO.

Some of the dealers were very good and some were very bad, there was no middle ground. I understand opening night people need to work out the kinks, but there was one dealer in particular who clearly never played poker before. I'm sure he'll get better with time, but this issue should've (and easily could've) been identified before the room opened. Sitting at the table for 1/2 hour while he dealt made me really excited for the automatic shufflers that Cheers says they will implement.

The room itself is very loud. As loud or louder than BBCC. The quality of the tables, chips and cards are Above-Average. Others liked the chairs, I personally do not like them, but I'm not going to knock them for the chairs, because they appear to be higher quality than most rooms.

The fact that the ceiling is so low really impacts the sound there. I also, don't like how the ceiling is painted black gives off the basement feel and is very claustrophobic.

The lighting is a huge disappointment. Plainly stated, the lighting sucks. I suggest that for the time being, while they work on fixing the lighting, that they use the four table pushed against the back wall. Those tables have better track lighting and are probably quieter because they are further away from the gaming and bar area.

Overall for the first night I think the room is great and I am very encouraged for the future. If the room remains in its current state I will almost surely be solely visiting cheers when it opens. However, I'm sure Chasers will be working on improvements moving forward and I look forward to seeing the room develop into a polished product.

I wish ownership the best of luck and I want them to know that their effort and attentiveness didn't go unnoticed by many.

That is far from a typical game with button straddles.

good point.
Most 1/2 games don't have a $15 straddle.

LOL. Do $1 chips play when all-in?

So did Cheers open today?

A toast!

To "three words you never hear any more!"

Here here!

I played at Cheers Friday night opening night too. All things considered I think they've done a great job considering it was the first night.

Things I loved:
1. They got a second PLO game going once the list was pretty long. That I like.
2. Place is very pretty. Fancy/new tables, new chips, new chairs, modern/clean renovation.
3. Floor attentive and considerate.
4. $500 max buyin for 1/2 PLO

What I didn't love:

More than half the dealers at my table were NEW, as in never dealt a hand in their lives...and they were dealing PLO. It was completely understandable that mistakes were made but ugh. I don't like having to speak up to get mah money, but that's what I had to do repeatedly. Girl dealer was nice but man, she: pushed the pot my way, but left a big stack of reds in front of the guy who lost. I was looking at it thinking "stfu Josie, she'll push it to you, and then she started dealing another hand. I pointed across the table to the big red stack and said "Those are mine." She replied "ok" and proceeded to scoop up the blinds $1/2 and pushed them to me. I told her "No, I meant the big red stack next to the blinds." Thankfully the guy who lost them to me didn't take them back.

Then, I flopped a set, I bet....and as I'm waiting for the next guy to move, all of a sudden 2 of the 3 flop cards were in the muck, by her own hand. *this* would've been upsetting but when I asked her where the flop went, she pulled the correct 2 cards out of the muck on the first try, and no one complained so no harm no foul, other than giving me a heart attack.

Other stuff was minimal, like not bringing in the bets before turning another card etc.

Room was so loud and cold. I play poker every Friday night and I don't remember it ever getting so loud.

It was my first time playing with the Mississippi straddle and I rather liked it!

I didn't eat any food so can't comment on that, but I got a lovely glass of merlot in a lovely wineglass that fit the cup holder!

Oh and I won. That always makes the experience nice. Especially considering that within the first 15 minutes I lost 2 hands, both with fullhouses to better full houses. Needless to say I was on my 2nd buy in within the first half hour which sucked. But I won it all back plus more.

I SHOULD'VE won the last hand I played but I folded it. I took a picture of it before folding....Imma give you a hand history of it. Not sure how many of you play PLO. I think my fold was the right move, regardless of the results but let me see what you think. Buggsy won (that particular hand) because I'm good enough to fold when behind. Grrrrr Buggsy I want a rematch!

Josie,
You left your second glass of merlot behind. I went looking for you, but you must have left.

BTW, we were at Chasers, not Cheers. not trying to correct you, as much as I don't want the other readers to be confused. I rather enjoy when you are confused. OK, yes, a few of the new dealers were terrible. Hopefully, that will be corrected.

And I can't even edit it! Yes it was at CHASERS not Cheers!

No, that was still my first (only) glass of wine, not my second. You think I'm getting drunk when you're at the felt? Pfff

This debate again? Against competent opponents that adjust appropriately, it is always -EV to put money in the pot before looking at your cards. From any position.

Now, perhaps it could be true that the +EV of your being on the button is greater than the -EV created by a button straddle. So overall it's still a profitable spot. But it's less profitable than if you look at your cards before deciding what to do.

The biggest impact of a button straddle is to screw over the blinds by denying them the one advantage they have: being last to act pre-flop.

So being last to act pre flop is an advantage if you are in the blinds, but not if you are the button?

I think increasing the stakes every time you are last to act every street is +EV. If you don't, so goes the debate I guess.

Seems to me that "Against competent opponents that adjust appropriately", no action can be optimal, every choice has drawbacks.

The only GOOD choice is "find another game".

I'm not quite sure that description applies to the venues that we've been discussing

Anther thing about Chaser I forgot about from opening night.

The waitresses were awful. Sat there for 4 hours and was asked if I wanted a drink once.

Hopefully the drink service improves moving forward.

So is the other place opening or what?

All quiet on that front. Who knows?

When does BBC open the addition? Am I the only that thinks there's too many options in NH at the moment?

But by virtue of having the button, you are already third last to act preflop. You're only improving your preflop position by two spots, hardly significant.

Position is important, but cards are important too. Putting in 2BB with a random hand is massively -EV. It's really hard for skill to overcome -20BB/100. Sure, there is some price I would pay for the stakes to be higher when I had the button, but that price is a lot less than 2BB.