Ya they also have matinee tournaments starting at 11 am I think.

The weekday tournaments are on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

Thanks for posting the links mikelbyl - I had seen the front page of the paper and wanted to see what they had to say but there is no way I'm giving them a dime.

I am surprised one of the places hasn't drastically cut the rake...for example snakes that seems to be losing all its cash game business.
If they changed there 8$ rake to 6$ I know I would go there instead of the casino...most of the time anyways.

BTW it is pretty much confirmed that there is a new place opening up in the fall, out near Playground.

Can you give more details if you have any please? I'm curious

I've heard a lot; all of it would be classified as rumour...

--Someone mentioned that Duhamel is attached to the project

--Another person mentioned that he knew some of the people behind the project and they have a good reputation. (I don't personally know many folks at that end of the business, so I don't know names/histories etc.)

--It's going to be called (wait for it...) Stardust Poker Mansion. Terrible name IMO. Sort of an old Vegas theme.

--I know at least one guy who I'm pretty sure will be working there, and he's top notch.

--I've heard other rumours but those are much less "confirmed" than the stuff above... so I've left it out.

Thanks. I hope they come out with a website or something soon. Always get interested when something new pop onto the scene. I wonder how this will effect the other rooms.

I wasn't trolling, but still curious about the rake situation, and why some room doesn't rake the normal $4 or $5 plus a BBJ drop of a $1.

When you have a government monopoly there's no need to use lube.

No incentive to drop rake. Unfortunately not enough competition. Still unsure why other poker rooms in kahnawake don't lower the rake to try to bring people back. I'm sure it wouldn't work though. Playground has taken over.

The fact of the matter is casual players like the good service offered by playground. They like the food, the waitresses and the atmosphere. I usually hand around the casino because of the lower rake (still high) and proximity. I do love playground though. No complaints other than the rake (especially on the higher stakes). If there is a new room that opens up they should learn a few things from the playground management and marketing. They're used to be radio AND television ads.

I've talked to some people about this recently and I learned that it's all about food service. That's very expensive - the number one cost center for a poker room by far according to some.

At the same time, this is one of the key competitive advantages the rooms in Kahnawake have compared with the Casino. I doubt many investors would want to try operating without a high quality comped Resto for players.

The confounding factor is that the poker room restos have a challenge when it comes to spreading out the revenue base in that they're relatively remote. Chateauguay is right there but that's not a huge community to draw from.

One of the rumors about the group who were supposed to buy Four Aces was that they were going to tackle this problem by offering a buffet which presumably would have been cheaper to operate.

Not sure a buffet would work. I do like self serve at poker rooms. I know that many people do not. Also quality of food at a buffet is generally bad. Casino has terrible food. I can't remember the last time I didn't leave hungry or eat before going because I despise the food.

It's not just the food. It's the quality of the food. Playground has amazing food. If it wasn't comped I'd actually pay to eat there. I'd go out of my way for that restaurant. Also the large menu is great (well middle sized) but they're is enough variety and they offer snacks too which are also really good. They don't offer frozen microwaved dinners. To me that makes a big difference.

If the new poker room doesn't have 5$ rake (which to be honest only attracts regulars) I probably won't go there more than once or twice (unless the games are amazing). I'll stick to the good food or where ever has the most players.

I expect the new place to be fully competitive with Playground on all counts, including food. Due to the specific geography of the area, both are more likely to be able to offer a good restaurant and not lose tons of $$ than say Snakes because they're closer to Chateauguay - which means more chance for takeout and non-poker walk-in business.

The other factor in all of this is that Playground is rumoured to be looking into expansion, both in terms of the poker room and building a hotel and golf course. Not sure what the status of either of those is at the moment - or even if they're even more that "poker player's rumours".

Rake "problems" aside - I think there's a good chance that we're heading into a really great time for the game in Montreal. The only worry is likely whether there are enough players to support it. Snakes' tournaments are still very well-attended but I've heard their cash games have dried up.

Thanks for all the info mikelbyl.

The expansion rumor has more truth than any I think. Don't know about the hotel or golf course (both would be great additions). I mean the place is packed a lot of the time. I can only assume an expansion is coming.

Bottom line on rake in the area is this:

Without slots or table games to bring in extra revenue the rake will always be higher than traditional casinos because it HAS TO BE. There's no way a room can afford to run on $5 rake without alternative revenue to support it.

Isn't getting a bunch of tables at 5$ rake better then one or 2 tables with 7/8$ rake the way Snakes is now. It seems to me with Snakes steady tourney attendance they are in best position to offer lower rake on cash games.

You would think. Also it's great advertisement. Point out how much you pay to play at playground and show people that you are charging significantly less. Recreation players just don't know and the ones that do know really don't care. Seems like a great promotion to try to drive people in. They've got to try something before it's too late.

I haven't been to Snakes enough recently to understand how they have such good tourney attendance but so few cash games - but I've heard that's the case from multiple people. If this is accurate then it's a real problem, because tournaments don't really make much money - they're loss leaders to get people in the door and on to cash tables.

I will be at Snakes tonight though I'm not sure one visit will give me much insight.

If you have time write a small trip report. I haven't been there in well... ages... Probably well over a year.

Just went to the website. BBJ 99K and tonight tournament is 220$ tag team tournament. I'm not sure if this applies to these rooms, but at the casino when the BBJ is over 100K many random people pop in to play. Also more tables running and there is more buzz and BBJ talk. Maybe it's because they offer table games and such.

Yeah I'm playing in the tag team - it's a really fun format and my partner's someone I consider a damn good player so I have high hopes. I will definitely report back.

GL take that thing down!

Because Stan (aka Snake) is smart enough to realize that this is a short-term solution at best? Starting a rake-war with the other rooms would lead to nothing but lower revenue for all rooms. Just like all the smoke shacks started fighting for clients in past years by lowering lowering and lowering prices until now there are a hundred shacks but they're making cents on the dollar per case now compared to the $$$ they used to rack in before they started the price war.

If Snake's actually did lower to $5 (and trust me when I say they would have to also lower their services to match), and IF (which is not necessarily the case) the clients left Playground to go to Snake's instead and actually hurt Playground's numbers enough - they would probably end up lowering their rake (and consequently their services) to get them back, and in the end the situation would be pretty much the same - except now BOTH clubs would be making less money.

Of all the Montreal area rooms, the only one that could conceivably lower their rake without crippling the business would be the Casino de Montreal, because they don't give you **** in the way of services anyway, and they're more than adequately funded by the slots and table games to be able to absorb the lowered revenue from poker.

What you say in a way make sense but I am not sure I agree.

First the casino is never going to lower their rake even if snakes is packed every night so I think that argument is a bit of a non-starter. The casino knows that they get tourists and walk-ins that will never go to the reserve, not to mention people without cars and silly people who don't feel comfortable going to the reserve.

I do agree with the "war" argument. Between snakes and playground. But I think it is much easier for snakes to lower their rake then playground which relies more on cash games. Plus let's say snakes and playground both lower their rake which might happen, it might be a good thing because it would make it nearly impossible for a new place to open and compete ala bye-bye four aces. anyways there probably isn't any right or wrong answer to this argument but like the above poster said I think Snakes has to try something...seriously even 6 rake with food would make me play there then other places.

I get what your coming from and figure that's the main reason nothing happens. As a player I really look for the best promotions and the best traffic. If there are hardly any tables running at any place I'm not likely to return (unless it's a private game). The reasons why I give most of my action to the casino are: the rake, proximity to DT, and the number of table they have running.