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Old 10-15-2018, 01:10 PM   #326
Scientist
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by 12bigworm81 View Post
The player that gets involved more often and wins 6-10 pots per hour has much less benefit from the promo than the rock that only wins 1-2 pots an hour.
I think I see what you are trying to say. That a player who plays more pots, pays more rake, and therefore benefits less overall?

This is true, but their overall play style and rake contribution would be reflected in their winrate. The chart above is independent of winrate and bonus should be added to overall winrate. It represents the hourly expected value of the promotion compared to when the promotion is not running.

By the same logic, you could say a poor player would benefit less from this promotion, because they will lose a lot of money for the chance to win the promotion. That may be true in actual dollar terms but not in expected value. If they are typically a -$15 an hour player, during the promotion they could be a -$2 an hour player. Still losing money, but less.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:15 PM   #327
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by 12bigworm81 View Post
Way too straight line of assumptions. How do you give the same number to all players? The player that gets involved more often and wins 6-10 pots per hour has much less benefit from the promo than the rock that only wins 1-2 pots an hour.


Thereís nothing wrong with these assumptions at all. It would be ridiculous to figure every situation possible. Averages are enough to gauge.
Also, those factors donít have a bearing using the way he is figuring this anyway. Heís counting the totals beyond these factors.

That being said, I disagree with this idea of bonus ev in this situation
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:07 PM   #328
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Bonus EV: Extra value added to your current net winrate at the current game. Your net winrate includes all rake (including Jackpot), blinds, tips, stacks you donk off with TPTK etc. Bonus EV is not a free handout, it requires you to incur the costs of playing the game (or the profit if you're a winning player).




You say that bonus EV is not a free handout.
I agree. Then why is the cost not factored into the EV?
I think its a mistake to lump in the promo drop as part of the ďcost of playing the gameĒ. The rake is the cost of playing the game, the promo drop is the cost of participating in the promos.

BTW- not trying to be difficult, hope you donít mind a friendly debate to hash things out
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:27 PM   #329
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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You say that bonus EV is not a free handout.
I agree. Then why is the cost not factored into the EV?
I think its a mistake to lump in the promo drop as part of the ďcost of playing the gameĒ. The rake is the cost of playing the game, the promo drop is the cost of participating in the promos.

BTW- not trying to be difficult, hope you donít mind a friendly debate to hash things out
Its no problem, I'm really a scientist and a teacher so its kind of what I do. Sorry if I was short at any point.

The reason I don't factor in the promo drop is because the promo drop always occurs (during promotion or non promotion times). So basically, you are paying promo drop whether you have an ability to win it or not. So when comparing promotion to non promotion games, the $2 on each side of the equation cancels each other out.

Because of that, this formula only compares promotion vs non promotion games in the same card room. So this formula/chart is useful if you want to make a decision about playing Sat vs Sun at MGM, or trying to determine how much more valuable your time is on Sat vs Sun. If you're trying to decide which room to play and wanted to compare a promotional game at MGM to a non promotional game at MS (where you are paying less rake and less promo drop) this chart becomes less useful. You would have to calculate or estimate your average hourly rake in each room, then see if the bonus EV awarded by the promotion makes it worth it.
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Old 10-15-2018, 04:55 PM   #330
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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I hope they have better security than the CT casinoís crew of walking dead and elderly people
the security at mgm in sprinfield, ma. is in a league of it's own. if you want to get rolled, knifed,beaten,raped,or any other such sundry things just go on down. the security will help you out when it is all over.
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:17 PM   #331
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Seriously it canít be THAT bad can it!?!
Got me second guessing now
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:25 PM   #332
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

You guys are aware that "security" legally cannot help you past making a radio call for the police right? I could stab you in the face and the most that security can do is make a good description of me to the cops or show them the security footage. Either way....your face is stabbed. Just be aware of your surroundings and you'll be fine. Not everywhere is the middle of the CT woods.
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:44 PM   #333
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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You guys are aware that "security" legally cannot help you past making a radio call for the police right? I could stab you in the face and the most that security can do is make a good description of me to the cops or show them the security footage. Either way....your face is stabbed. Just be aware of your surroundings and you'll be fine. Not everywhere is the middle of the CT woods.


This is ironic because the MGM billboard points out that they are in the city and not in the middle of nowhere
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:49 PM   #334
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Lol....it's easier to vanish into the city then into the woods. But let them advertise whatever makes people comfortable.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:07 PM   #335
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

The poker room has a Twitter account now: https://twitter.com/MGMSPoker
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:47 PM   #336
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by clide9 View Post
Seriously it canít be THAT bad can it!?!
Got me second guessing now

Be careful and aware here guys. While you need to be aware of your surroundings no matter where you are you need to pay extra attention here or you could regret it. I haven't seen a place as close to being in the wild west since I played at MGM Kabul !!!!
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:10 PM   #337
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Hmmmm. I know a couple of employees, and regularly have coffee with a bunch of cops who work the casino who all have a much more docile description of the place. I'm not sure if the prior posts are just rumors out of control, or just misunderstandings, but I've heard it's been surprisingly quiet.
The police logs dont show much going on, so unless they are actively removing lots of stuff from public records, the place is much safer than people think.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:31 PM   #338
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by 413AceKing View Post
Hmmmm. I know a couple of employees, and regularly have coffee with a bunch of cops who work the casino who all have a much more docile description of the place. I'm not sure if the prior posts are just rumors out of control, or just misunderstandings, but I've heard it's been surprisingly quiet.
The police logs dont show much going on, so unless they are actively removing lots of stuff from public records, the place is much safer than people think.
In addition to my post #320 I found out Sunday when I was at Foxwoods that a floor from that casino was at MGM the weekend before and got coldcocked by some random dude outside of the poker room leaving his mouth bloodied and him out cold on the ground. I mean....I dunno what has to qualify to go on a police log but from my experience and this reported incident I'd hardly say that this place is docile.
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:15 AM   #339
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

I played in the poker room about 9 hours Friday night into Saturday morning this past weekend, these were my observations:

1) Dealers still need a lot of coaching on fundamentals. More than a few would get deeply involved in conversations between players which ground the action to a halt. I like friendly dealers, but to engage with players they need to be able to multitask and keep the game moving. More than once I had to correct a dealer on the minimum raise required when a player raised too little. One dealer burned and turned the river before the button had acted. Another dealer mucked the stub after I moved all in and another player had called. There was also a lot of players chattering about their hole cards or the board.

2) Beverage service was nearly nonexistent. I ordered a bottle of water and it arrived after dealers changed twice (roughly 50 minutes). In the 9 hours I was there, I only heard/saw a beverage waitress 3 times.

3) Spacing needs to be improved. Several times either myself or my chair was struck by a fast moving floor person or janitor pushing a trash barrel. Despite the table being squared up when the table was full, the player on my right was practically on top of me and constantly hitting me with his knee and arm (I was pressed completely against the rake box with no room on my left).

4) Player conduct needs to be policed better. There was one clearly over-served player walking around the room singing at the top of his lungs with no consequences (2 players at my table complained to dealer, then went to find a floor themselves). A lady at my table was also clearly over-served, berating players, loudly bragging about her Nordstrom card, and spilling liquor on the table. Dealers and floors should be watching this more closely, especially given the 4am exemption granted to the casino lest the gaming commission hear too many of these types of stories and decide the exemption was a bad idea.

5) Red felt and no courtesy line for dealer. I know many have complained about the felt color, add me to the list. Though I'm not a fan of hard betting lines (forward motion should always be the rule), a courtesy line showing how far a dealer should be able to reach can be very helpful in keeping the game moving.

6) The racks should have black chips added and more white. The number of fills was ridiculous and also contributed to slowing the game down. Dealers were fanning out the cash and verifying the rack at every swap. Chip runners would be ideal instead of selling out of the rack, and first buy in should be mandatory from the cage instead of allowed from the rack.

7) Comps. Was very disappointed to learn that poker doesn't earn tier points and that it is so complicated to use the points outside of the poker room. None of the casinos I've frequented over the years (even the small charity rooms in New Hampshire) offer such difficulty for poker players to earn and redeem.

My family and I get Six Flags season passes every year, with the casino opening I was hoping to start spending a day at the park then getting us a hotel so I could play some poker at night and then either back to the park the next day or driving home refreshed. If these issues remain the status quo in the Spring I probably won't bother with that plan and won't be choosing MGM over Foxwoods or Mohegan any time soon as the distance is about the same.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:13 AM   #340
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by Rizzeedizzee View Post
Haven't ventured there yet, and after hearing from my buddy (who was in the military and lived in Lawrence for many years) describe the clientele as "concerning" I'll probably just pass and stay with my usual rooms for now and Encore when it opens
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Originally Posted by clide9 View Post
Everybody keeps telling me how dangerous it is and stories of people getting robbed left and right and the room being filled with shady people.
Can’t be that bad, is it?
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Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
So far there has been one random assault and 0 robberies reported. I find the room to be a great mix of bad players of all sorts. A couple grumpo regs but mostly people there to have fun and gamble. I guess it depends how sensitive you are. I'm there to play poker and take your money. IDGAF what you talk or act like. If you are comfortable and only comfortable with the FW type crowd, this may not be the joint for you.
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What counts as "reported?" The bolded above is a mischaracterization from what I've witnessed in 5 visits and heard directly from workers who are friends of mine. I was there two Fridays ago and saw the very end of a stabbing INSIDE the casino. There were multiple people, both workers and patrons, saying this was the THIRD such incident inside the casino since it opened.

Granted, this was not in the poker room but a worker formerly employed by one of the CT rooms told me personally that he's thrown more people out of the MGM poker room in one month than he had in 10 years in CT. Take that for what it's worth.


Having said that, this isn't any/much worse than most room I play in during my work travels in different parts of the country. I agree if a Mohegan crowd is what you're most comfortable with you're probably better off staying there as that room, and Foxwoods, is about as "soft" as they come in regards to poker room clientele.
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Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
Wow that does sound scary. Reported by local news outlets is what I meant. I guess the casino has incentive to keep these things quiet.
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Originally Posted by clide9 View Post
I hope they have better security than the CT casino’s crew of walking dead and elderly people
Quote:
Originally Posted by becky88 View Post
the security at mgm in sprinfield, ma. is in a league of it's own. if you want to get rolled, knifed,beaten,raped,or any other such sundry things just go on down. the security will help you out when it is all over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clide9 View Post
Seriously it can’t be THAT bad can it!?!
Got me second guessing now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordkjun View Post
You guys are aware that "security" legally cannot help you past making a radio call for the police right? I could stab you in the face and the most that security can do is make a good description of me to the cops or show them the security footage. Either way....your face is stabbed. Just be aware of your surroundings and you'll be fine. Not everywhere is the middle of the CT woods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_goat View Post
This is ironic because the MGM billboard points out that they are in the city and not in the middle of nowhere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordkjun View Post
Lol....it's easier to vanish into the city then into the woods. But let them advertise whatever makes people comfortable.
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Originally Posted by clide9 View Post
Will they tweet their stabbings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr ATM View Post
Be careful and aware here guys. While you need to be aware of your surroundings no matter where you are you need to pay extra attention here or you could regret it. I haven't seen a place as close to being in the wild west since I played at MGM Kabul !!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 413AceKing View Post
Hmmmm. I know a couple of employees, and regularly have coffee with a bunch of cops who work the casino who all have a much more docile description of the place. I'm not sure if the prior posts are just rumors out of control, or just misunderstandings, but I've heard it's been surprisingly quiet.
The police logs dont show much going on, so unless they are actively removing lots of stuff from public records, the place is much safer than people think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhodyGuy View Post
In addition to my post #320 I found out Sunday when I was at Foxwoods that a floor from that casino was at MGM the weekend before and got coldcocked by some random dude outside of the poker room leaving his mouth bloodied and him out cold on the ground. I mean....I dunno what has to qualify to go on a police log but from my experience and this reported incident I'd hardly say that this place is docile.

Springfield is gonna Springfield.

If you're not safe at the casino, you're not safe anywhere in the city.

Do not flash mass cash in the external community.

Living in western Mass for the majority of my overly-extended life, the casino feels o.k. to me.

I make sure to park near the elevators and directly hit 91 upon exit, unless I'm hitting another downtown spot.

Worthy Cajun eats: Big Mamou's (well outside the MGM footprint) on Liberty Street - byob.

Last edited by sailorsaint; 10-16-2018 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:22 AM   #341
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by RhodyGuy View Post
In addition to my post #320 I found out Sunday when I was at Foxwoods that a floor from that casino was at MGM the weekend before and got coldcocked by some random dude outside of the poker room leaving his mouth bloodied and him out cold on the ground. I mean....I dunno what has to qualify to go on a police log but from my experience and this reported incident I'd hardly say that this place is docile.
I think you'd have to call the police and file a report to have it show up. The FW floor got punched? He's not the guy from the police report is he? That guy was randomly punched by some dude who was going around springfield all day randomly punching people.

Maybe I'm going to the wrong MGM!? Because I've never seen/ heard anything dangerous in my 55 hours of poker and 5-6 hours of hanging out since they opened. I've also never seen more visible security in any casino I've been in. I've seen quite a few drunks and degens and people on an assortment of drugs but all of them pleasant and friendly enough, all of them willing to make bad bets and lay me great odds. Iunno.

Not really comfortable leaving the casino with my roll on me, so deposit boxes would be nice as there are some restaurants nearby I want to check out. Other than that, I really don't have any issues. I'll post here and let you guys know when I get stabbed though.

Last edited by Scientist; 10-16-2018 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:28 AM   #342
andrew4433
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

I played here last Saturday and I really think some of you guys are being way too harsh on the place. The poker room is amazing, I thought the service was good, dealers were fine, and I had some noodles in the food court area that was actually pretty quality. Also I like the hot seat promo, it adds some fun and seems to attract casual players.

Also I felt completely safe, I mean I went garage -> casino -> garage, but I don't se why you would do otherwise lol.

Ill be going back to this room for sure.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:52 AM   #343
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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I think you'd have to call the police and file a report to have it show up. The FW floor got punched? He's not the guy from the police report is he? That guy was randomly punched by some dude who was going around springfield all day randomly punching people.
No, different incident. The guy on the day long bender was over a month ago, this latest was last weekend. I'm sure the casino doesn't want these things hitting the news reports and anything police is going to be public record so it would seem they would simply throw the guy out rather than call police in for an arrest.

Quote:
Maybe I'm going to the wrong MGM!? Because I've never seen/ heard anything dangerous in my 55 hours of poker and 5-6 hours of hanging out since they opened. I've also never seen more visible security in any casino I've been in. I've seen quite a few drunks and degens and people on an assortment of drugs but all of them pleasant and friendly enough, all of them willing to make bad bets and lay me great odds. Iunno.
Hey, I'm all about that as well. My comments in this thread regarding safety concerns people have were isolated to those concerns. I've played in rooms just as shady in FL and in the Midwest.

Quote:
Not really comfortable leaving the casino with my roll on me, so deposit boxes would be nice as there are some restaurants nearby I want to check out. Other than that, I really don't have any issues. I'll post here and let you guys know when I get stabbed though.
Hearing a Western Mass guy recommend parking near an elevator and be sure to hop directly on the highway aren't the most comforting words to those who do have concerns. Again, I'm not the guy worried so much about it but only advising those from the middle of CT that it IS going to be a little different than what they are accustomed to at their home casino.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:24 AM   #344
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
I think you'd have to call the police and file a report to have it show up. The FW floor got punched? He's not the guy from the police report is he? That guy was randomly punched by some dude who was going around springfield all day randomly punching people.

Maybe I'm going to the wrong MGM!? Because I've never seen/ heard anything dangerous in my 55 hours of poker and 5-6 hours of hanging out since they opened. I've also never seen more visible security in any casino I've been in. I've seen quite a few drunks and degens and people on an assortment of drugs but all of them pleasant and friendly enough, all of them willing to make bad bets and lay me great odds. Iunno.

Not really comfortable leaving the casino with my roll on me, so deposit boxes would be nice as there are some restaurants nearby I want to check out. Other than that, I really don't have any issues. I'll post here and let you guys know when I get stabbed though.


What time/days do you usually go? Maybe its a weekend/ drunk people thing.
I doubt most of these incidents are random. And Iím guessing robberies inside the casino or even in the garage are not common at all. I would guess the robberies are happening outside of the casino. As far as the violent incidences inside the casino or poker room, if youíve ever had to deal with ďproblemedĒ places before, you can learn how to stay out of trouble.
I get it, sometimes trouble finds you, Iím saying thats the exception not the rule.

You know, I see a lot of people at the Connecticut casinos who say, act, or do things with a certain sense of naÔve security that wouldnít fly in some places. Whether wrong or not, maybe Springfield is one of those places.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:31 AM   #345
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Not just being confrontational but also for example-

I once saw a kid win a bad beat jackpot, take his share in cash, put it in a duffel bag, run around the room tipping waitresses and dealers hundred dollar chips and went home.
Everyone should see the problem with this but I think that some people just donít think this way.
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:07 PM   #346
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhodyGuy View Post
In addition to my post #320 I found out Sunday when I was at Foxwoods that a floor from that casino was at MGM the weekend before and got coldcocked by some random dude outside of the poker room leaving his mouth bloodied and him out cold on the ground. I mean....I dunno what has to qualify to go on a police log but from my experience and this reported incident I'd hardly say that this place is docile.
I know who you are referring to and I’m just curious if you heard this from him or from one of the many players who all spreading a different story?
After reading recent comments, it appears you’re saying two diff foxwoods floors were punched in the face? The one I know of happened 2-3 weeks ago

Last edited by jpsychlady; 10-16-2018 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:44 PM   #347
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by Conan776 View Post
The poker room has a Twitter account now: https://twitter.com/MGMSPoker
ICYMI - More rake is better confirmed at MGM.

There is a thread on their twitter where management has clarified that the higher rake structure is ACTUALLY BETTER! This was after someone complained about the rake being unbeatable. Damn, it turns out DNegs was right all along!
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:45 PM   #348
clide9
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Can you get into and out of the garage straight from the highway?

Last edited by Lattimer; 10-22-2018 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:46 PM   #349
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by ralphykid67 View Post
ICYMI - More rake is better confirmed at MGM.



There is a thread on their twitter where management has clarified that the higher rake structure is ACTUALLY BETTER! This was after someone complained about the rake being unbeatable. Damn, it turns out DNegs was right all along!


No!!!!!! Not the rake discussion again!!!
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:12 PM   #350
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by ralphykid67 View Post
ICYMI - More rake is better confirmed at MGM.

There is a thread on their twitter where management has clarified that the higher rake structure is ACTUALLY BETTER! This was after someone complained about the rake being unbeatable. Damn, it turns out DNegs was right all along!
lol oh no. Can you link it? I don't see that convo on the page.

More rake IS OBVIOUSLY BETTER (for MGM)
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