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Old 10-09-2018, 09:53 PM   #301
Big Whoop
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Can someone post the hot seat promo details? I forgot to grab a sheet and the info isn't online.

Thank you!
Here's what bravo says.

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Old 10-10-2018, 01:34 PM   #302
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

I could be calculating wrong but assuming all 23 tables are running this works out to about $12 of ev per hour. Not bad, especially if it improves game selection and player pool.

Nice work MGM. Too bad I'll be lucky if I make it to the last drawing on Fridays. Or um Friday's promotion.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:52 PM   #303
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

14 tables running right now, still works out to about $12 an hour bonus ev with the 300/150 prize with that many tables running.

At the 3/6 limit game, that could triple a players winrate assuming one bb an hour. After watching a bit of that game I'm not sure how a thoughtful player isn't earning one bb an hour on average.

Last edited by Scientist; 10-10-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:43 AM   #304
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

9 tables running now at 10:45 on Friday. That's over $30/hour bonus EV. Why am I at work right now?
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:15 PM   #305
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

I had a blast there today, my first visit. No 2/5 games were going yet so hopped into 1/2. Ended up staying in that game all day. Most fun table I’ve been at in a long time. Lots of laughing, super comfy chairs, easy game, descent food. Would definitely go back. And we hit the promo once. Not bad.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:14 PM   #306
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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I had a blast there today, my first visit. No 2/5 games were going yet so hopped into 1/2. Ended up staying in that game all day. Most fun table I’ve been at in a long time. Lots of laughing, super comfy chairs, easy game, descent food. Would definitely go back. And we hit the promo once. Not bad.
It is a fun room! Lots of friendly people and an abundance of good games. Love it. Grats on the JP!
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:35 PM   #307
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

How likely is it to find parking in their garage?
I keep hearing people say they had to park off site
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:01 PM   #308
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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14 tables running right now, still works out to about $12 an hour bonus ev with the 300/150 prize with that many tables running.

At the 3/6 limit game, that could triple a players winrate assuming one bb an hour. After watching a bit of that game I'm not sure how a thoughtful player isn't earning one bb an hour on average.


You guys are figuring this without accounting for the promo rake, which I understand is $2 an hour.
Followings this line of thinking, all promos would have a positive ev. If they gave away 5 bucks an hour, you could then say you have a positive ev of .035¢ an hour
In actuality, it would obviously be a negative ev.

The 150/300 still may be a plus ev, but not as its figured previously here
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:03 PM   #309
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

About how much is the bad beat jackpot up to?
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:19 PM   #310
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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How likely is it to find parking in their garage?
I keep hearing people say they had to park off site
No problems with the parking garage when I went, and it was a weekend. PLENTY of spaces available. I think parking offsite was before the garage opened.
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:23 PM   #311
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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No problems with the parking garage when I went, and it was a weekend. PLENTY of spaces available. I think parking offsite was before the garage opened.
Garage was open on day 1....

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Old 10-14-2018, 02:54 PM   #312
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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You guys are figuring this without accounting for the promo rake, which I understand is $2 an hour.
Followings this line of thinking, all promos would have a positive ev. If they gave away 5 bucks an hour, you could then say you have a positive ev of .035¢ an hour
In actuality, it would obviously be a negative ev.

The 150/300 still may be a plus ev, but not as its figured previously here
Promo rake is a dollar at 10 and dollar at 30 for every pot. But this also feeds into BBJ and is always raked regardless if promotion is running.

Yes, promotions are almost always EV0 if you play literally 24/7. If you only play during promotions, they are always EV+ because rake is taken 24/7. The above calculations are for promotional play, 'bonus ev' is relative to regular, non promotional, 5+2 raked play.

With 11 tables running right now and the 500/250 pay out, bonus ev is $25 an hour.

More accurately, its $25 an hourly drawing. You have to be seated at the table when the drawing happens, but not for the full hour.

Last edited by Scientist; 10-14-2018 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:20 PM   #313
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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How likely is it to find parking in their garage?
I keep hearing people say they had to park off site

10:45 pm arrival on Friday found no problems parking. Circled up to Level 5 and was able to park only a handful of steps from the elevators.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:29 PM   #314
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Everybody keeps telling me how dangerous it is and stories of people getting robbed left and right and the room being filled with shady people.
Can’t be that bad, is it?
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:44 PM   #315
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MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
Promo rake is a dollar at 10 and dollar at 30 for every pot. But this also feeds into BBJ and is always raked regardless if promotion is running.

Yes, promotions are almost always EV0 if you play literally 24/7. If you only play during promotions, they are always EV+ because rake is taken 24/7. The above calculations are for promotional play, 'bonus ev' is relative to regular, non promotional, 5+2 raked play.

With 11 tables running right now and the 500/250 pay out, bonus ev is $25 an hour.

More accurately, its $25 an hourly drawing. You have to be seated at the table when the drawing happens, but not for the full hour.


Not sure if I’m misunderstanding you.
For simplicity, im assuming we’re ignoring the bbj.
It seems to me that it doesn’t matter whats dropped while you’re not playing when considering the hot seat promo.
Don’t you have to consider what your cost is to be eligible to win the promo?
That cost will fluctuate from person to person as does the amount of rake paid but unless you’re talking about sitting and never playing a hand, they’re taking money from you that you would be keeping otherwise, which is your cost.
Just because its always dropped anyway doesn’t make it free.
If I always took a dollar from you without returning anything, and then one day started to give you .50¢ back each time, it would still be costing you something.

Again, im not saying its not +ev, just that the calculation will be way off this way.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:46 PM   #316
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

So far there has been one random assault and 0 robberies reported. I find the room to be a great mix of bad players of all sorts. A couple grumpo regs but mostly people there to have fun and gamble. I guess it depends how sensitive you are. I'm there to play poker and take your money. IDGAF what you talk or act like. If you are comfortable and only comfortable with the FW type crowd, this may not be the joint for you.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:49 PM   #317
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Not sure if I’m misunderstanding you.
For simplicity, im assuming we’re ignoring the bbj.
It seems to me that it doesn’t matter whats dropped while you’re not playing when considering the hot seat promo.
Don’t you have to consider what your cost is to be eligible to win the promo?
That cost will fluctuate from person to person as does the amount of rake paid but unless you’re talking about sitting and never playing a hand, they’re taking money from you that you would be keeping otherwise, which is your cost.
Just because its always dropped anyway doesn’t make it free.
If I always took a dollar from you without returning anything, and then one day started to give you .50¢ back each time, it would still be costing you something.
I'm not saying that your overall playing is EV+ with the promotion running. I don't know your winrate, your avg hourly rake contribution, and tipping to determine that. The way bonus ev is calculated above, simply take your net hourly winrate for the room and add the hourly bonus ev. There is no additional rake cost during promotion.

If you were making a comparison to another room, that complicates things. For example, at MS the rake is 4+1 so you'd have to calculate the hourly difference the $2 extra rake makes.

Last edited by Scientist; 10-14-2018 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:00 PM   #318
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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I'm not saying that your overall playing is EV+ with the promotion running. I don't know your winrate, your avg hourly rake contribution, and tipping to determine that. The way bonus ev is calculated above, simply take your hourly winrate and add the hourly bonus ev.


Im not talking about your poker win rate at all.
Let’s ssay everyone is sitting at the tables and no poker is being played at all. Everyone is just sitting, waiting for the hours to go by to see who wins the promo. In that situation the amount you would average an hour is as you are stating. But that’s not what’s going on.

Now let’s pretend everyone is sitting there not playing any poker so there is no rake being taken and no pots being won or lost, but every two or three minutes someone at every table is randomly required to pay $1-$2. That more accurately describes what’s actually going on and that’s your cost.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:41 PM   #319
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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So far there has been one random assault and 0 robberies reported. I find the room to be a great mix of bad players of all sorts. A couple grumpo regs but mostly people there to have fun and gamble. I guess it depends how sensitive you are. I'm there to play poker and take your money. IDGAF what you talk or act like. If you are comfortable and only comfortable with the FW type crowd, this may not be the joint for you.
What counts as "reported?" The bolded above is a mischaracterization from what I've witnessed in 5 visits and heard directly from workers who are friends of mine. I was there two Fridays ago and saw the very end of a stabbing INSIDE the casino. There were multiple people, both workers and patrons, saying this was the THIRD such incident inside the casino since it opened.

Granted, this was not in the poker room but a worker formerly employed by one of the CT rooms told me personally that he's thrown more people out of the MGM poker room in one month than he had in 10 years in CT. Take that for what it's worth.


Having said that, this isn't any/much worse than most room I play in during my work travels in different parts of the country. I agree if a Mohegan crowd is what you're most comfortable with you're probably better off staying there as that room, and Foxwoods, is about as "soft" as they come in regards to poker room clientele.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:42 PM   #320
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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What counts as "reported?" I was there two Fridays ago and saw the very end of a stabbing INSIDE the casino. There were multiple people, both workers and patrons, saying this was the THIRD such incident inside the casino since it opened.

Granted, this was not in the poker room but a worker formerly employed by one of the CT rooms told me personally that he's thrown more people out of the MGM poker room in one month than he had in 10 years in CT. Take that for what it's worth.
Wow that does sound scary. Reported by local news outlets is what I meant. I guess the casino has incentive to keep these things quiet.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:50 PM   #321
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

I hope they have better security than the CT casino’s crew of walking dead and elderly people
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:57 AM   #322
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

Because I can't help being wonky and I think the hot seat promotion is quite decent I've made a table to tell you the bonus EV for playing during the promotion on different days depending on the number of tables running.

Bonus EV: Extra value added to your current net winrate at the current game. Your net winrate includes all rake (including Jackpot), blinds, tips, stacks you donk off with TPTK etc. Bonus EV is not a free handout, it requires you to incur the costs of playing the game (or the profit if you're a winning player).

Assumptions: The following chart assumes all tables running have 10 seats filled. Having less than 10 seats filled at all tables will slightly increase the probability of your exact seat being picked. Having a less than average number of players at your specific table will decrease the probability of your table being picked. These things complicate the calculation so the following chart assumes 10 players to all running tables.

Find the number of tables running (bolded numbers). Find the appropriate column for the prize structure of the promotion day. That's your bonus EV per hour (or more precisely, per hourly drawing).

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Old 10-15-2018, 11:25 AM   #323
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
Because I can't help being wonky and I think the hot seat promotion is quite decent I've made a table to tell you the bonus EV for playing during the promotion on different days depending on the number of tables running.

Bonus EV: Extra value added to your current net winrate at the current game. Your net winrate includes all rake (including Jackpot), blinds, tips, stacks you donk off with TPTK etc. Bonus EV is not a free handout, it requires you to incur the costs of playing the game (or the profit if you're a winning player).

Assumptions: The following chart assumes all tables running have 10 seats filled. Having less than 10 seats filled at all tables will slightly increase the probability of your exact seat being picked. Having a less than average number of players at your specific table will decrease the probability of your table being picked. These things complicate the calculation so the following chart assumes 10 players to all running tables.

Find the number of tables running (bolded numbers). Find the appropriate column for the prize structure of the promotion day. That's your bonus EV per hour (or more precisely, per hourly drawing).



Where did you get this definition of “bonus EV” ?
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:25 PM   #324
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Originally Posted by Scientist View Post
Because I can't help being wonky and I think the hot seat promotion is quite decent I've made a table to tell you the bonus EV for playing during the promotion on different days depending on the number of tables running.

Bonus EV: Extra value added to your current net winrate at the current game. Your net winrate includes all rake (including Jackpot), blinds, tips, stacks you donk off with TPTK etc. Bonus EV is not a free handout, it requires you to incur the costs of playing the game (or the profit if you're a winning player).

Assumptions: The following chart assumes all tables running have 10 seats filled. Having less than 10 seats filled at all tables will slightly increase the probability of your exact seat being picked. Having a less than average number of players at your specific table will decrease the probability of your table being picked. These things complicate the calculation so the following chart assumes 10 players to all running tables.

Find the number of tables running (bolded numbers). Find the appropriate column for the prize structure of the promotion day. That's your bonus EV per hour (or more precisely, per hourly drawing).

Way too straight line of assumptions. How do you give the same number to all players? The player that gets involved more often and wins 6-10 pots per hour has much less benefit from the promo than the rock that only wins 1-2 pots an hour.
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:52 PM   #325
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Re: MGM Springfield (Springfield, MA)

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Where did you get this definition of “bonus EV” ?
I made it up. It is a theoretical construct to measure the value of a promotion, all other things being equal.
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