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Old 01-28-2019, 04:30 PM   #5501
potluckneeded2
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by dc_publius View Post
The point is that the goals of MGM have nothing to do with our goals here as poker players. It is not a question of being surprised. It is just a reminder that these casinos are not here to serve/help anyone.

Actually, we know exactly how casinos feel about winning players. Online poker has foreshadowed the sort of similar progression we see in live. The player pool gets bled too hard by crushers and online poker sites took quite a few steps to lower a winning player's edge. The biggest reason why live casinos are not taking these steps yet (aside from increasing rake) is because poker is very low on their priority list. Keep your fingers crossed that MGM doesn't implement the Stars/PP/UB/etc playbook.
I understand all your main points. For me, I don't really have much of an opinion if casinos are there to serve. I can always play online or home games. I see my goals in alignment with MGM, we're both working toward as much profit possible.

As for your comment about winning players, I also understand. Last year I requested a no cap 1/3 in this thread, however, I understand the reasoning that it could fry fish too quickly. I do feel live is a different environment. i wonder what percentage of players have spouses gambling during their poker playing? How many hit the black jack tables, restaraunts etc.. so unlike online poker, there's other ways for MGM to mitigate money being sucked out by winners. I want all these people in the player pool. It just took playing overseas and US indian casinos to remind me how bad the poker economy can be.

Last edited by potluckneeded2; 01-28-2019 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 01-28-2019, 06:46 PM   #5502
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by Rapini View Post
Really. It is sad.

It is sad because repeating the same gripe over and over again when it is both legal and good business for Johnny to keep the status quo shows that you don't understand that it's both legal and good business.

Your "solution" ignores that current practice is both legal and good business. And your assumption that MHMNH would ban boycotters doesn't pass the laugh test.
Its legal. Its good business because it saves MGM money and nobody can realistically do anything about it. That still doesnt make it right, or fair. Corporations do things all the time that arent right or fair and nobody can do anything about it.

When I said they would ban "boycotters" I actually meant if they did something like organize a picket line out front of MGM. The mere fact of just boycotting and not playing there wont make a hill of beans unless 500 people did it which will never happen.....which gets back to the reason corporations can do whatever they want. Its still not right.
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Old 01-28-2019, 07:25 PM   #5503
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Its legal. Its good business because it saves MGM money and nobody can realistically do anything about it. That still doesnt make it right, or fair. Corporations do things all the time that arent right or fair and nobody can do anything about it.

When I said they would ban "boycotters" I actually meant if they did something like organize a picket line out front of MGM. The mere fact of just boycotting and not playing there wont make a hill of beans unless 500 people did it which will never happen.....which gets back to the reason corporations can do whatever they want. Its still not right.
It seems like you understand now. So what are you going to do about it?
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:35 PM   #5504
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by Rapini View Post
It seems like you understand now. So what are you going to do about it?
I don't see how not deciding to boycott makes a point for you. This is a forum for people to get their voices heard and give feedback... Sometimes that results in change, sometimes it doesn't. Those that continue to voice against the current promo policy are simply adding to the list of those opposed. What's he gonna do about it? Have his voice heard by those that follow this thread.
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:47 PM   #5505
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by Rapini View Post
It seems like you understand now. So what are you going to do about it?
Ive understood all along and Im not going to do anything about it because I'm not stupid enough to think anything will change. That doesn't make me wrong about the issue.
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Old 01-28-2019, 08:49 PM   #5506
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by chexmix_59 View Post
What's he gonna do about it? Have his voice heard by those that follow this thread.
Sure, but he's done that, several times now. How often do people need to hear the same opinion from the same person over and over? It gets tiresome. His position is clear and noted by those that follow this thread.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:27 PM   #5507
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Sure, but he's done that, several times now. How often do people need to hear the same opinion from the same person over and over? It gets tiresome. His position is clear and noted by those that follow this thread.
Its called having a debate. Sorry if it bores you.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:39 PM   #5508
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Repeating the same point over and over and over again is not a debate. I'm sure if you took a poll of cash game players 99% would agree.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:45 PM   #5509
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
Repeating the same point over and over and over again is not a debate. I'm sure if you took a poll of cash game players 99% would agree.
Savage....
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:12 AM   #5510
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
Repeating the same point over and over and over again is not a debate. I'm sure if you took a poll of cash game players 99% would agree .
What about tournament players?

What would they think?
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:11 PM   #5511
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

As a starter, I would add this fine print to the structure sheet:

In case of overlays MGM, as an organization, will not be responsible for padding the GTD. The money collected for jackpot funds from tournament entries and cash games will be used to pad the GTD.

I would love to see how many of the MGM Top Brass would be willing and thrilled to do this.
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:40 PM   #5512
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post
What about tournament players?

What would they think?

I am just wondering:

How many of you raise a question about policies or procedures at a cash game/tournament table?

The few times I raised this question at a 1/3 game or a daily tournament, the players seems to be oblivious about the fact that this was happening. The general or the first reaction usually is “They can’t do that!”.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:28 PM   #5513
potluckneeded2
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by GolfPro View Post
I am just wondering:

How many of you raise a question about policies or procedures at a cash game/tournament table?

The few times I raised this question at a 1/3 game or a daily tournament, the players seems to be oblivious about the fact that this was happening. The general or the first reaction usually is “They can’t do that!”.
Personally, I bring it up as much as I talk about ranges or politics. 0.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:30 PM   #5514
potluckneeded2
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by GolfPro View Post
As a starter, I would add this fine print to the structure sheet:

In case of overlays MGM, as an organization, will not be responsible for padding the GTD. The money collected for jackpot funds from tournament entries and cash games will be used to pad the GTD.

I would love to see how many of the MGM Top Brass would be willing and thrilled to do this.
I might word it slightly different, however, I do like the idea of transparency.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:58 PM   #5515
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by potluckneeded2 View Post
I might word it slightly different, however, I do like the idea of transparency.
Transparency is good. In Bravo, there is a breakdown of the tournament buy-in fees. Most people think when it's guaranteed, the house is covering the overlay not the players themselves. Years ago, I learned that some rooms used the promo or bad beat funds to cover whatever short fall. It is then wrong to call a bad beat fund and use it for something else. Borgata uses the bad beat funds for their daily high hand promotions, but at least it's noted on the website. Nowadays, you have to be careful when you hear words such as guarantee or free. I personally don't like that MGM is using promo funds for overlays, but that's not gonna stop me from playing there.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:49 PM   #5516
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfPro View Post
As a starter, I would add this fine print to the structure sheet:

In case of overlays MGM, as an organization, will not be responsible for padding the GTD. The money collected for jackpot funds from tournament entries and cash games will be used to pad the GTD.

I would love to see how many of the MGM Top Brass would be willing and thrilled to do this.
I Got stuck by Fine Print before and a Tournament Bait & Switch at another local Casino.
Online Flyer, Bravo, and Poker Atlas all said one thing. Casino had some other flyer having some different Weasel print.

That Casino advertised a Guarantee and then got all Whack when they did not meet "minimum". Would have been much better for them if they Honored the advertised guarantee - they would have at least one more tournament customer these days (I'll Play Cash there occasional but I have not played another Tournament there since).

Very Rare that MGM misses a guarantee and great attitude that they always honor a guarantee. I think MGM is doing everything right!!!

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=2970
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Old 01-30-2019, 05:30 PM   #5517
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Dropnloads, I read the info in the link you posted.

It is true that Live used to fund the GTD when they missed before. As you said that gave them the incentive/motivation to work their butt’s off to reach the guarantee. As it would hurt their profits otherwise.

If you use the funds from the jackpot drop why would anybody be motivated to work extra.

As some have said, I love overlay events. But the real point is, the money is coming from us the players and not the company. I am all for transparency as well.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:08 PM   #5518
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfPro View Post
As a starter, I would add this fine print to the structure sheet:

In case of overlays MGM, as an organization, will not be responsible for padding the GTD. The money collected for jackpot funds from tournament entries and cash games will be used to pad the GTD.

I would love to see how many of the MGM Top Brass would be willing and thrilled to do this.
How would adding language to the tournament structure sheet make cash game players aware of the situation?
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:39 PM   #5519
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by loonybird View Post
How would adding language to the tournament structure sheet make cash game players aware of the situation?
At least then it would be in printed formally in a location that many players, cash and tournament, read and in a way that it could then be shown to cash game players other than referring to some 2p2 posts. Currently in MGM's policy regarding the co-mingling of tournament and cash promotional funds written and published anywhere, formally?
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:46 PM   #5520
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Why would I expect anything other than one promo pool? It's one poker room with various types of games.
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:35 PM   #5521
MikeStarr
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by Didace View Post
Why would I expect anything other than one promo pool? It's one poker room with various types of games.
Maybe because 99% of the promo fund is funded by cash game players so they should reasonably be able to expect that somewhere close to 99% of promo money is paid back in cash games?
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:40 PM   #5522
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by GolfPro View Post
Dropnloads, I read the info in the link you posted.

It is true that Live used to fund the GTD when they missed before. As you said that gave them the incentive/motivation to work their butt’s off to reach the guarantee. As it would hurt their profits otherwise.

If you use the funds from the jackpot drop why would anybody be motivated to work extra.

As some have said, I love overlay events. But the real point is, the money is coming from us the players and not the company. I am all for transparency as well.
Live has never used jackpot funds to make up difference when GTD are missed, it has always come from their Revenue since day one. The article that was referenced refered to "BHS"
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:23 AM   #5523
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Maybe because 99% of the promo fund is funded by cash game players so they should reasonably be able to expect that somewhere close to 99% of promo money is paid back in cash games?
So he says they take in 9-14k from tourney (avg 11.5k), as 1%, meaning that 100% is 1.15m (1.1385m from cash). He said the overlay is usually 1k-1.5k (1.25k avg)

So the return to cash game players is 1.13725m/1.15m = 98.89% returned

Or as mike starr refers to it “[nowhere] close to 99%.”
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:58 AM   #5524
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

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Originally Posted by chexmix_59 View Post
I don't see how not deciding to boycott makes a point for you. This is a forum for people to get their voices heard and give feedback... Sometimes that results in change, sometimes it doesn't. Those that continue to voice against the current promo policy are simply adding to the list of those opposed. What's he gonna do about it? Have his voice heard by those that follow this thread.
Complaining when he could be taking action that actually has a chance to cause change is a lazy and actively unhelpful. Again, everyone understands that taking money from the cash games to cover tournament guarantees is legal and good business. So it's not going to change. Complaining about it isn't going to change it. But making it illegal or bad business would change it.

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Ive understood all along and Im not going to do anything about it because I'm not stupid enough to think anything will change. That doesn't make me wrong about the issue.
Go bang your head against a wall a few times and see if the wall cares. That's what you're doing here. You have a real opportunity to make a change you're plainly passionate about and you're choosing to do nothing.
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Old 02-01-2019, 06:26 AM   #5525
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Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

about 10 of my friends and I boycotted the only pizza place near my work for the past 10 years. Its still there, taunting me with its pizza.
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