Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Venues & Communities Discussion of live, legal poker venues, and discussion among players in live poker "neighborhoods."

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2019, 09:41 AM   #5476
trob888
Pooh-Bah
 
trob888's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,717
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnloads View Post
***********
IMO - (I know this will never happen) But I wish there was no Promo Drop at all. Keep the money on Table. Say over a five hour session about 150 hands, adds up to a lot of dough trickled off the Table. And just for a chance to luckbox a hot seat.
I would rather keep the cash on Table. I like my chances of winning a part of that extra 300 bucks more then I expect to luckbox a high hand.
If you thought about the big picture consequences of eliminating promos you wouldn't actually believe this.
trob888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2019, 11:48 AM   #5477
Tomark
veteran
 
Tomark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,599
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

bellagio/aria have no promo drop.
Tomark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2019, 01:40 PM   #5478
Didace
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Didace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,022
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Do you think Bellagio and Aria are good analogues for MGMNH?
Didace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2019, 02:17 PM   #5479
d10
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
d10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I fly better than I drive
Posts: 7,370
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Grunching thread: how are the games on weekdays? I haven't played any poker in over 10 years, is it reasonable to expect to grind out a profit with a basic strategy? I'm about to start working every other week so I have some free time and I live nearby.
d10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2019, 05:42 PM   #5480
loonybird
grinder
 
loonybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 558
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by d10 View Post
Grunching thread: how are the games on weekdays? I haven't played any poker in over 10 years, is it reasonable to expect to grind out a profit with a basic strategy? I'm about to start working every other week so I have some free time and I live nearby.
A basic strategy will serve you well at the blackjack tables.

Seriously, just go play. It'll be fun.
loonybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2019, 06:06 PM   #5481
Rapini
ragging
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 13,099
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by d10 View Post
Grunching thread: how are the games on weekdays? I haven't played any poker in over 10 years, is it reasonable to expect to grind out a profit with a basic strategy? I'm about to start working every other week so I have some free time and I live nearby.
As a gross oversimplification, I'd say that even bad players now have a decent understanding of basic strategy as compared to ten years ago; many of them just don't have the discipline to do the right/difficult thing. So you might not find the games as profitable as they used to be.

That said, MGMNH is not a bad place to make your return and see how rusty you are.
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2019, 09:11 PM   #5482
dc_publius
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 4,200
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
Do you think Bellagio and Aria are good analogues for MGMNH?
Bellagio and Aria have 10 competitors within 10 minutes, but somehow still manage to draw biggest crowds. MGMNH has no direct competitors. It takes too long to go to Live because of traffic.

In that respect, MGM are well positioned to do what they want. But let's be honest here, casinos are not here to do the best thing for poker. They are here to rake the hell out of the games, as much as the market will bear.

They canceled the tourney for safety reasons so dealers don't have to brave the weather? My ass. Did they close craps and BJ tables so the dealers don't have to brave dangerous weather conditions too? What an amusing excuse. The one time there was (probably) going to be a good overlay, they canceled it. That's why.
dc_publius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2019, 11:09 PM   #5483
Tomark
veteran
 
Tomark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,599
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
Do you think Bellagio and Aria are good analogues for MGMNH?
Id probably say there are fewer than 20 casinos which are better comparisons. Id guess the closest comparison is foxwoods/mohegan. East coast casino with only 2 major players in the area. Ive never been though which is why i mentioned bellagio/aria. Looks like foxwoods has a lower rake and doesnt have BBJ drop.

I also think Johnny knows more about poker room management than any of us. But I dont think its reasonable to dismiss no promo drop out of hand as if its some “Good on paper” suggestion.

I personally like the promo drop, because I can play whenever id like, and rarely play weekends, and i think its sorta fun, so i most certainly get more out than i put in, but i think its personal preference.

Last edited by Tomark; 01-24-2019 at 11:16 PM.
Tomark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2019, 11:18 PM   #5484
Lattimer
I is smart
 
Lattimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 14,400
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Foxwoods is 5+1
Lattimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2019, 06:30 PM   #5485
Lurshy
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 1,627
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
You're not making much sense here.

Its entitlement tilt to expect all the cash game promo money to be paid back to cash game players? Tourney players have their own promos that cash game players cant win

Fair use is NOT dictated by gaming regulations. Fair use is dictated by what society (in this case a large group of poker players) would think is fair. Gaming regulations regulate what is legal and Im sure this practice is legal but it sure isnt fair.

Would I be happier if they charged an admin fee? For what? If theres going to be an admin fee charged to cover shortages in tourney guarantees it should be charged to tourney players.
No, you are distinguishing the table type (tourney/cash) as a separate class to keep seperate, they consider all poker promo dollars taken in as promo dollars, able to be applied to promos for all poker players, they are actually pretty close in how it shakes out, and there is nothing preventing participation crossover except that some cash players don't play tourneys.

Bet some higher stakes cash players get some promo benefits that they didnt pay in... If for no other reason than they occasionally play lower for a promo or while waiting for higher game and bink something.

And if the gurantees attract enough players, no promo dollars would get used for the overlays, and the pendulum would swing back with tourney sourced promo dollars supplementing cash game promos. And bringing more plauers to the room and cash games (as players drop out of tourneys, many play cash)

Those tourney guarentees benefit cash games, you just don't agree with the strategy, but this isnt unfair, or unethical as some claim.
Lurshy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2019, 06:52 PM   #5486
Lurshy
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 1,627
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

And some rooms , not mgmnh, do charge admin fees. They justify this because it costs labor and materials to administor the funds, set up the promotions, dealing with a varety of admistration tasks.

So they can justify somewhat effectively raking the promo fees.

Many many charities don't give 100% of the gathered dollars to the underlying cause. It costs to adminstor the funds. Some abuse this, most don't. Now I know this business isnt a charity (far from it) and mgmnh doesnt do this but they could and many rooms e.g CAZ, does this...
Lurshy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2019, 11:18 PM   #5487
MikeStarr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,501
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurshy View Post
No, you are distinguishing the table type (tourney/cash) as a separate class to keep seperate, they consider all poker promo dollars taken in as promo dollars, able to be applied to promos for all poker players, they are actually pretty close in how it shakes out, and there is nothing preventing participation crossover except that some cash players don't play tourneys.

Bet some higher stakes cash players get some promo benefits that they didnt pay in... If for no other reason than they occasionally play lower for a promo or while waiting for higher game and bink something.

And if the gurantees attract enough players, no promo dollars would get used for the overlays, and the pendulum would swing back with tourney sourced promo dollars supplementing cash game promos. And bringing more plauers to the room and cash games (as players drop out of tourneys, many play cash)

Those tourney guarentees benefit cash games, you just don't agree with the strategy, but this isnt unfair, or unethical as some claim.
Id love to hear an example of how tourney sourced promo dollars supplement cash games.
MikeStarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2019, 11:34 PM   #5488
dinesh
veteran
 
dinesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,348
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

OK. 100k in tourney promo funds come in, but no overlays are needed, so 0k in tourney promo funds are used.

200k in cash game promo funds come in. 250k in cash game promo funds are used for various cash game promos.

50k in tourney promos just got used for cash. 50k in tourney funds is still in the bank, and may get used for overlays in the future, or may also get used for future cash promos, depending on what happens in the future.
dinesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 08:29 AM   #5489
DCJ001
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,618
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinesh View Post
OK. 100k in tourney promo funds come in, but no overlays are needed, so 0k in tourney promo funds are used.

200k in cash game promo funds come in. 250k in cash game promo funds are used for various cash game promos.

50k in tourney promos just got used for cash. 50k in tourney funds is still in the bank, and may get used for overlays in the future, or may also get used for future cash promos, depending on what happens in the future.
Your numbers are way off. It is more like it $198,000 for cash, and $2000 for tournaments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyGroomsTD View Post
About 99% cash 1% tournament.
DCJ001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 08:55 AM   #5490
dinesh
veteran
 
dinesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,348
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

My numbers could be $1 tournies and a million in cash and they would still work to explain how cash could benefit from tourney promos if there are no overlays.
dinesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 11:57 AM   #5491
potluckneeded2
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 201
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_publius View Post

In that respect, MGM are well positioned to do what they want. But let's be honest here, casinos are not here to do the best thing for poker. They are here to rake the hell out of the games, as much as the market will bear.
You mean capitalism is alive in America? Fantastic. They built a product people are voluntarily willing to support.
potluckneeded2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 12:07 PM   #5492
potluckneeded2
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 201
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

I was glad to read both sides of argument concerning promo funds. Personally, I can see both sides of view even if I lean more towards agreeing with Johnny's position.

I'm curious, for the people that are upset with the way poker promotion money is handled, what is your action plan? Now that your voices have been heard, what next?
potluckneeded2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 08:14 PM   #5493
Rapini
ragging
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 13,099
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by potluckneeded2 View Post
I was glad to read both sides of argument concerning promo funds. Personally, I can see both sides of view even if I lean more towards agreeing with Johnny's position.

I'm curious, for the people that are upset with the way poker promotion money is handled, what is your action plan? Now that your voices have been heard, what next?
They need to work toward either making it illegal or bad business by lobbying the appropriate authorities or generating a boycott. But we all know that won't happen, unfortunately.

I personally don't care either way about whether there's a promotion drop, what it's used for, etc., but it is sad when people complain without being willing to back it up with solutions and action.
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 09:59 PM   #5494
MikeStarr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,501
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapini View Post
They need to work toward either making it illegal or bad business by lobbying the appropriate authorities or generating a boycott. But we all know that won't happen, unfortunately.

I personally don't care either way about whether there's a promotion drop, what it's used for, etc., but it is sad when people complain without being willing to back it up with solutions and action.
Really? Its sad?

Its sad to voice displeasure over something you think is wrong and unfair?

The solution is easy. Stop doing it. If the tourney misses the guarantee, the casino makes up the difference. I bet if you took a poll, the vast majority would assume that's whats happening already even if there is some small print that says otherwise. They sure as hell dont put that fact in large print where everyone can see it and know about it.

Organize a boycott? Come on, Man! That's ridiculous. Not only would it be a waste of time but Im sure MGM would ban the boycotters would make the whole thing a mute point for the boycotters.
MikeStarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 12:56 AM   #5495
DrChesspain
Pooh-Bah
 
DrChesspain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,998
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDough View Post
Why is MGM doing these guaranteed tourneys? To benefit cash game players? Obviously not, it’s to bring in more revenue. Sure, you can argue it has the side effect of “making cash games better” but the bottom line is that MGM is taking funds out of the cash games pool and unfairly “redistributing it to the players” without consent or disclosure (Johnny didn’t tell us until we asked). Mismanaging money to line their pockets is akin to fraudulent behavior even if it’s technically “legal”. Whether cash game players should be okay with this can be up for debate. Maybe as a cash game player I don’t like playing with tournament players who short buy and jump in and out of the games. I don’t care about the players the tournament brings in and don’t want to share my $1 with them.
+1000
DrChesspain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 04:11 AM   #5496
dc_publius
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 4,200
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by potluckneeded2 View Post
You mean capitalism is alive in America? Fantastic. They built a product people are voluntarily willing to support.
The point is that the goals of MGM have nothing to do with our goals here as poker players. It is not a question of being surprised. It is just a reminder that these casinos are not here to serve/help anyone.

Actually, we know exactly how casinos feel about winning players. Online poker has foreshadowed the sort of similar progression we see in live. The player pool gets bled too hard by crushers and online poker sites took quite a few steps to lower a winning player's edge. The biggest reason why live casinos are not taking these steps yet (aside from increasing rake) is because poker is very low on their priority list. Keep your fingers crossed that MGM doesn't implement the Stars/PP/UB/etc playbook.
dc_publius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 02:16 PM   #5497
Tomark
veteran
 
Tomark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,599
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Well if yall knuckleheads wanna boycott over 50 cents that is going to another player not even the casino, i dont think the casino would even care enough to ban you.

Not to resort to whataboutism but there must be some greater injustice you could point your rage towards in your life than this. Hell, i think the second dollar of the promo drop is a way more worthy battle.
Tomark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 02:21 PM   #5498
Tomark
veteran
 
Tomark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,599
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
Foxwoods is 5+1
Appreciate the correction. Guess I shouldve just stuck to the weaker comparison that i had actually been to instead of trusting fly by night websites.
Tomark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 02:28 PM   #5499
Lattimer
I is smart
 
Lattimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 14,400
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

And rumor has it FW is about to switch to 5+2, so another one bites the dust.
Lattimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 04:13 PM   #5500
Rapini
ragging
 
Rapini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 13,099
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Really? Its sad?

Its sad to voice displeasure over something you think is wrong and unfair?

The solution is easy. Stop doing it. If the tourney misses the guarantee, the casino makes up the difference. I bet if you took a poll, the vast majority would assume that's whats happening already even if there is some small print that says otherwise. They sure as hell dont put that fact in large print where everyone can see it and know about it.

Organize a boycott? Come on, Man! That's ridiculous. Not only would it be a waste of time but Im sure MGM would ban the boycotters would make the whole thing a mute point for the boycotters.
Really. It is sad.

It is sad because repeating the same gripe over and over again when it is both legal and good business for Johnny to keep the status quo shows that you don't understand that it's both legal and good business.

Your "solution" ignores that current practice is both legal and good business. And your assumption that MHMNH would ban boycotters doesn't pass the laugh test.
Rapini is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online