I don't know what's going on at the brush stand but I'd say 50-75% of all table transfer requests result in me not being called and a new player being sent to that game instead. I know this is a big problem for others as well. I have to closely monitor the table I requested and catch the new player coming in and then call the floor creating an annoying scene for everyone involved.

Gracias. I hope I win.

Johnny, those are the 5-card probabilities, but do they hold true for a full 7-card board (choosing best 5?) My math gut is telling me there's a difference, which is why someone asked about the trips>straight variant. Something about 7-card boards pairing more often, thus less trips as the best 5. (i.e. it's the winning hand less often than a straight?) Then again, math gut == fish gut...

I'm sure this is a thread elsewhere in 2p2 land; if someone more familiar with that game could link to it here I'd bet I won't be the only one grateful for the extra info (and the quick stoppage of the potential derail?)

These probabilities are for a 7 card hand.

Since you will be playing with just 69% of a regular deck, will be be charging 69% of the regular rake?

No

Came to support the new shot clock tournament.

Didn’t realize it was an on the job training, next time will wait for a few weeks to pass before supporting these ventures.

It might be hard for the dealers to keep track of betting and monitoring the shot clock at the same time.

Also, it would help to set it to 30/40 sec in these initial training weeks.

I'm gonna argue that point, but with only 75% confidence (since again I wasn't a math major...)

You show the "count" of hands, along with the total at the end for choosing 5 cards from the 36-card deck, but not the count of the hands when choosing a full 7-cards and making the best 5-card hand out of those.

Let's look at the trips to see how this is much different:
Some portion of those 16,128 5-card trips hands are "counterfeited" by a card in slots 6 or 7 for full 7-card hands, making them into boats or quads or flushes or straights. This number is not insignificant, as is shown by a simple example.

Let's say we have 66678 as a sample 5-card hand (rainbow.)

There are (31*30)/2 = 465 7-card hands that have this specific 5-card hand in it. (31 remaining cards, choose 2)

Of those, how many do not have a 6, 7, or 8 in any of the last 2 cards? I might be wrong here, but if we take all the remaining 6, 7, and 8 out of our 31-cards and choose 2, we have
(24*23)/2 combos left, or 276.

Additionally, we must remove the combinations that make straights, so all A9 and 9T variants. (4*4 each) And let's not forget the runner-runner pairs (6*6). So take 16, 16, and 36 away from 276 = 208

208 / 465 = 44.73% left!

Therefore, at most 45% of the times that 5 of our cards are 66678 will we actually have a trips hand when 7 are pulled.

I posit that this invalidates the 5-card hand counts as a relevant basis for hand ranks in this game, as they are not necessarily accurate reflections of the 7-card world.

Some Googling found a link that I cannot verify, but it could show why this game is definitely a GAMBLING game when played with that rank table. The totals are correct at least (36 choose 7 = 8.3MM) as is the Royal (4 * 31 choose 2 = 1860) but I'm not smart enough to do the rest.

Link to thread


Best 5-Card Hand Combinations Probability
Royal Flush 1,860 0.000223
Straight Flush 8,700 0.001042
Four of a Kind 44,640 0.005348
Flush 175,560 0.021031
High Card 233,100 0.027924
Three of a Kind 607,200 0.072739
Full House 633,024 0.075832
Straight 1,169,940 0.140152
One Pair 2,316,600 0.277514
Two Pair 3,157,056 0.378196
Totals 8,347,680 1.000000
~

Can you imagine hi-card beating trips!? Now I'm sure no casino is spreading the game this way... also, I have no idea what kind of dynamic is introduced by the fact that the board is shared - but I'm guessing it's not different than holdem.

Once again - someone better at math, or with a reliable source, I'm very interested in seeing a more complete proof or refuting of this conclusion! This seems pretty important if the MD gaming commission is going to rule on this; I have little faith they will understand it fully.

(Hey, they approved 6:5 BJ after not allowing it at first... so someone isn't doing the math.)

Finished 8th in the first ever shot clock tournament.

I don’t think I will try it again till it improves. It was nice to have a 9 seated tournament table as they have only 9 clocks. It was horrendously when we were on the bubble, 5 handed at each table and 2 mins taken away for each hand. During this time the levels kept changing as well (new TDA rule).

As the system is new the dealers were getting trained at every push. Having one clock at the dealer would make this a much better system to operate and manage.

WRT the math, its on the wiki page, yes trips are rarer than straights in a 7 card variant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-plus_hold_%27em

However despite this, i think Johnny’s hand rankings for the most common ruleset is accurate. trips were ranked below straights in the most recent major tournament. The game is pretty new so there are still several different rule variants people use. (Antes are also more common than blinds, but either are used)

My guess is that trips werent put above straights because such a rule would reduce the excitement of the game. Trips, 2p, and pairs can occur on any board texture, so straights would basically play like 2 pair, and youd also never be incentivized to draw to a straight since you may well be drawing dead on literally any texture.

In Paigow poker, straights are more common than trips, but straights still rank higher. It's not unprecedented.

At some casinos like Commerce the cage can issue a check. I really hope MGM can offer the same. Any possibility of that, Johnny?

Hi Johnny,

Could you please give an update on how this process is coming along? I don't mean to rush you, 'cause I know it's only been about two weeks since you posted the above; for all I know y'all might have ordered cards and are waiting for them to come in or whatever. But when I ask some of the floor supervisors about seating cards, some of them have no idea about it and don't even know that we're planning to start using them soon.

I just want to reiterate how frustrating the seat-stealing is, and that it continues to happen every day. Just yesterday (Thursday), I arrived and put my name on the 2/5 waitlist around 9:15 PM. I was 16th on the list and there were about seven 2/5 tables running. I went to Starbucks etc. to kill time. About 30 minutes later, I came to check my spot on the list. I had moved up to...14th. As usual, it's pretty obvious people are jumping the list, but I try to stay calm and continue to wait patiently. Eventually, I start keeping a closer eye on things.

When I'm 10th on the list, I see there are some open seats here and there at 2/5. I watch a new player walk up and sit down at a seat. About 8 minutes later, my buddy (who's already playing 2/5 but has been equally frustrated by these types of issues) texts me: "Within the last 5 minutes, three new players have sat at my table and I'm fairly certain none of them were sent here." I go check my spot on the list...I'm still 10th. Obviously, if players were legitimately sent to those seats, I should've moved up four spots on the list.

I go speak to the list attendants at the front podium. "No, we didn't send three people to that table in the past 5-10 minutes...at least two of them definitely just sat down without us sending them," they tell me. They politely try to help and call a supervisor to investigate the issue, but as usual not much can be done. And all of the staff (rightfully so) is frustrated at having to stop what they're doing to try and police this stuff. And I am embarrassed every time I have to bother them and complain about this stuff.

All in all, it took me about an hour and 15 minutes to wait for a seat, and it should've happened much sooner with the many 2/5 games running and the frequent turnover. Extremely aggravating.

This happens every day, and most people don't have a clue how rampant it is. Because it's so easy for a seat-stealer to get away with it. Someone jumping the line and walking up to sit at a table looks exactly the same as someone who was legitimately sent to the seat. The players and dealers have no idea and no way to verify it.

Using seating cards would solve everything and I really hope they're coming soon. Johnny, I'd appreciate if you can update us on this and, as always, thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to read and consider all of that.

A couple of weeks ago, I also asked for a timeline.

The last time that I played here, I did notice that, when people were sent to open seats, there were announcements that were made to notify the dealers that players were coming to their tables.

While we're on the topic of adding games, any chance Archie could be added? It's been on the wanted games list for a while with the mixed games players.

A couple of players and myself at table 32 yesterday were experiencing smoke
and smells. The dealer said they come from the restaurant upstairs.

Just for the record I can’t WAIT to see the bitching from the few people who used to skip the line all the time once the seat cards come in. Because they’re the only ones who’ll be hurt. Up till now everyone else who has been honest has been hurt by THEM.

Johnny, this improvement cant come fast enough.

Again, reiterating the other recent posts: seat-stealing (both initial line-skipping and unapproved transfers) remains a huge problem. I continue to see it happen at least a half-dozen times almost every session.

Johnny, you said seat cards were coming, and that was fantastic news. Can you please confirm if/when you plan to implement this policy?

If you’ve changed your mind since saying that, can you please let us know why the idea was abandoned? If you’ve heard compelling counter-arguments from your staff that we haven’t already debunked itt, what are they?

The size and business volume of the room shouldn’t be excuses. The status quo isn’t “just the way it is” in busy poker rooms. I’ve played thousands of hours in rooms that were bigger and at least as busy (Bestbet Jax & Maryland Live), and neither of them have this rampant problem. Neither of those rooms uses seat cards, true, but they have the problem otherwise stamped in the bud (through dedicated 2/5 seating supervisors or other means).

And I’m not saying that IS what the staff’s position is. But when no reasons are offered itt, and we continue to see the same chaos every day, we’re left to speculate. It seems like the staff mentality is either what l described above, or the desired avoidance of dealing with inevitable pushback from seat-stealers. It honestly appears that the staff’s goal is just to get through each shift with as little conflict as possible, with no goal of ever addressing the bigger problem.

Sometimes it appears the staff is more annoyed with those of us who call out the seat-stealers than they are with the actual seat-stealers.

We have a new ops manager in place. I have agreed to give him a couple of weeks to address the issue through other means. If they don’t work, we go to seat cards.

seemingly nothing has changed if tonight is indicative. granted its a saturday

If whatever is being done to prevent seat stealing does not work on a Saturday, the proposed method is a failure.

Johnny, can you advise us in any way what these “other means” are?

You have a dedicated population of regulars who might be able to give you insight based on real world experience. Unless the ops manager is on here as well he has not seen what we have been saying.

For the record I am disappointed that it seemed to be we were moving towards seat cards and now they are being further delayed. It may be cynical but I am starting to fear you/MGM really don’t want to issue seat cards because you know it will upset some customers. The problem is the few people seat cards upset are they very people who are ruining the experience for the other 95% of the population who adhere to the rules. Unless the dealers or floor are willing to kick people out of the seat they steal, A: difficult to police B: Doubtful they’d implement, I think seat cards are the only way to go.

Earlier in this thread, there were mentions of other rooms that don’t have this issue, that also didn’t use seat cards. That make me believe that it’s possible to do without seat cards. If the problem isn’t fixed, seat cards will be used at some point.

Observing from afar...
Foxwoods seems to not have a rampant seat-stealing problem, and they don't use seat cards. They do use floor people to escort patrons to the certain table, as directed by the front desk "quarterback".
The Bicycle in LA uses this system as well- however, their logistics and room layout are more conducive to front desk sightlines. They have the reg.desk and announcer high up in the air, with total vision of the entire lower seating area. The high limit area in the "Plaza" is controlled by a similar method.
Same at Commerce. I don't play there nearly as much, but very similar. High up, great sightlines.
Borgata- similar...
Thunder Valley- Sacramento- now with a ton of active tables, the desk is in the midst of the cash game floor. Players are urged to- swipe in themselves and wait in a very comfy seating area, replete with a bar, coffee/sodas, magazines, a bunch of TVs; and/or swipe/register, and provide cellph# for text message. Even with Bravo, its always "player in" announced.
A place I frequent that HAS a seat stealing problem is Palm Beach Kennel. The desk is to the side, sight lines are poor, you have to buy in at the cage (which causes a delay from hearing your name, to getting chips at a slow cage, to finding your table in a large yet cramped cash game room, and when you get there...there are a lot of locals and dealers who are clubby and chummy, which leads to "sorry, we don't have a seat here".....and associated crap like that. Now to be fair, last month they did have an adjunct floor who you were sent to first, after the reg.desk, and it seemed they were addressing same.
Having played at MGMNH for a four day stay last year- I can see how some of these issues will happen, just from the logistics of the layout One reg.desk, with his back to the room. Must buy-in at the cage, causing a delay in getting to the table. Perhaps some overly friendly interaction with dealers/patrons (guessing) et al...as identified by the regs in this thread.
I can count on one hand the rooms that use seat cards that I've played in. Sure, OK, its an OK system. For a large, fast paced room, I'm not sold on it being the best way. Its a lot of manpower to pluck seat cards from a dealer, get them back to the front, order them appropriately, call a name and then re-hand them out. Might work for a 20 table room, not sure about 50+. It works fine in MTTs, since you are shrinking the field.
Good luck...

The poker room moved. The layout is different.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5b4a3ab5/t.../1600/1600x900