Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Venues & Communities Discussion of live, legal poker venues, and discussion among players in live poker "neighborhoods."

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-25-2017, 06:38 PM   #3076
GolfPro
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,295
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGreebo View Post
You're right, there wasn't.

Because there were several reasons given for why they may be satisfied with the process as it stands.

The earlier response sounds more like corporate BS. I understand the advantages of Cash Games over Tournaments. This is a moot point for the day and time we are discussing. I will elaborate the same below.

Look, it would be great if every poker room could do everything exactly the way every poker player wanted. They can't.

JG has a good ear for feedback. You will be surprised to see some of these discussions would be implemented if it is agreeable to him.

Further, they don't really need to. The 2nd smallest (in table count) room in the region has a huge audience for cash games and that audience is made up of some of the richest counties in the country.

This is where you are making a little more sense. Today is monday, the time is between 11:45 - 12:45 (give or take a few minutes), the room had 12 cash games and 5 tournament tables and a handful of dealers available for afternoon games. I totally understand if it is the weekend with long lists. When I said why not open a table, I didn't mean to kill a cash game and turn into a tournament. I am suggesting open a table and accomodate the alternates. Also, this would have been for one or max two downs. In one or two dealer downs the table and dealer would have been available for cash games.

The reason rooms run tournaments, primarily, is to bring players in. People come, they play, they bust, they go play cash.

When your cash tables are full already, there's only one reason to run tournaments at that point. To shut up the people who want to just play low cost tournaments.

I explained above why this a moot point for time and day of this discussion.
My point is when you have an option and staff available then what additional motivation do you need to be proactive. This is not something new it is being done at other places. I am not saying because I was an alternate, if I were seated and someone was waiting I would have still suggested the same.
GolfPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 07:10 PM   #3077
Rod the Bod
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 188
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Just witnessed an unfortunate situation that could've been avoided with the use of all-in buttons.

Player A raised to $20. B and C called. D ($1,000 stack) said "all in" but only threw out $40. Dealer announced the all-in but did not ask the player to put their whole stack in. Action folded around to A and B, who folded. C, an older gentleman who's deaf in one ear and had an earbud in the other, thought the raise was to $40 and instantly threw out that amount.

At this point a couple players say, "You know you just called an all in, right?" C pulls his earbud out, looks bewildered, and says he thought it was only a $40 call. The dealer says, "That's an all-in call," and runs the board out without giving C much time to process the situation or call for a floor ruling. C's T8s doesn't suckout on D's AA, and he slides over his whole stack without much protest. After a few minutes to process what happened, he becomes justifiably annoyed and talks to the floor once it's too late.

Yes, the onus is on players to pay attention and seek clarification if needed, and you run the risk of missing verbal declarations when you're wearing earbuds. But the player in question is kind of aloof by nature, deaf in one ear, and too nice of a guy to speak up and protect himself in the heat of the moment. The dealer announced it so authoritatively that he just accepted it. The penalty for making that mistake should be surrendering the $40 he'd already put out and being allowed to fold his hand, especially since no further action was influenced by the call, but he was never given the opportunity. Instead it cost him $1,000. He's also a reg who might now be turned off from returning.

Imo MGM should either implement the use of all-in buttons or the dealers need to be militant about making players push their stack in, or at least let the verbal declaration stand but have the player keep all their chips in front of them, and not let them throw out some in-between amount of chips that could be misconstrued. Most dealers don't do this, and most of the time nothing bad comes from it, but when it does, it's SO costly to the player who gets screwed.
Rod the Bod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 08:24 PM   #3078
loonybird
grinder
 
loonybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 528
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyGroomsTD View Post
Just for sake of argument, can you offer specific areas we can improve in running our tournaments? Would love to get the info to make necessary changes.
I won't rehash the issues raised by Crazy Joe Davola and Savage Henry but I have witnessed some of the same and generally agree with what they have raised. In addition:

1. Tournament Registration- It takes entirely too long to register a player. I don't know what is involved for the cashiers but I have timed the transactions while waiting and it is often 2 minutes per entry. The other place averages 30 seconds per entry. I have doubts about MGM staff being able to handle registration for a large field tournament efficiently.

2. Start on Time - I have played 19 tournaments (mostly Sunday and a handful of Weeknights) and exactly 1 has gone off at the scheduled time. Why?

3. Being Efficient in General - The staff just doesn't seem to do a very good job of staying on top things. Some examples are: breaking tables, filling empty seats, balancing tables, and keeping the current player count up-to-date on the display.

Some specific examples: We once played an entire 30-minute level on a Sunday 6-handed while the other tables were full.

I see other rooms keeping the remaining player count current even before late registration has completed. At MGM, this seems to happen maybe once per half hour at most. In the middle and later stages, we want that information and also the average stack size (which requires a correct player count).

I see staff members standing around chatting and sometimes being nowhere to be found while these things are waiting for attention. There just doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency by the staff.


4. Incorrect rulings
-- All in and one or more calls: once action is complete, all cards must be tabled. This rule used to be misapplied all the time but has gotten much better. They still miss it occasionally.

-- The announcement before the start of the tournament that a player must be "in the vicinity of his seat" when the last card is dealt is ambiguous and drives me crazy. Just go by the TDA rules. In fact, just announce that MGM goes by the TDA rules except for [enumerate the differences]. The only one I know of is show down order when there is no action on the last street.

Thanks for listening.
loonybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 08:39 PM   #3079
W0X0F
sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight
 
W0X0F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,098
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod the Bod View Post
Just witnessed an unfortunate situation that could've been avoided with the use of all-in buttons.
.
.
.
.
Instead it cost him $1,000.
Please tell me that this wasn't a cash game and that you mean 1000 in tournament chips.
W0X0F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 09:27 PM   #3080
Rod the Bod
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 188
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by W0X0F View Post
Please tell me that this wasn't a cash game and that you mean 1000 in tournament chips.
2/5 cash game. I'm actually mad at myself for not speaking up and halting the proceedings to get a floor ruling before the flop was dealt. The whole thing happened so fast and I'm so used to just staying out of it when I'm not involved in the hand.
Rod the Bod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 09:44 PM   #3081
JohnnyGroomsTD
Poker Room Rep
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: the DMVeezy
Posts: 2,792
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod the Bod View Post
2/5 cash game. I'm actually mad at myself for not speaking up and halting the proceedings to get a floor ruling before the flop was dealt. The whole thing happened so fast and I'm so used to just staying out of it when I'm not involved in the hand.
I actually wish you would have...
JohnnyGroomsTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 09:47 PM   #3082
Rod the Bod
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 188
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyGroomsTD View Post
I actually wish you would have...
That makes three of us (you, me, and poor ole player C)
Rod the Bod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 05:47 AM   #3083
saigonese
stranger
 
saigonese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 11
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Joe Davola View Post

.....Floor hovering around the final table, making conversation with players and the dealer. Players don't want to hear this during a FT, no matter how small the tournament is. For a lot of recreational players, making the FT is a thrill and they aren't going to want any distractions. It's true that there may be some players who enjoy hearing the stories that the floor has to tell (one was talking about his upcoming vacation plans, while another was talking about his family) but those people must represent the minority......
In cash game there are also "distractions" that to me, tend to diminish the upscale feel of MGM poker room. Like chatty dealers. I have seen this dealer continuing his conversation with players at seat 3 while there are actions between player at seat 8 and 10. Like this dealer who is more attentive to "peripheral" things like the TV screen, the waitress, the regular guy nearby ...than to players at the table.
saigonese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #3084
DaveC95818
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Coast
Posts: 933
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyGroomsTD View Post
I actually wish you would have...
If you are playing 2-5 NL with a $1000 stack.....you should be paying attention. If you are that guy, listed above, and you have a hearing problem, you should not be wearing earbuds. If you are that guy, as above...and the room you are in does not use all-in buttons, you need to pay better attention.

If you are that guy, as stated above, and your room uses forward motion on a prior all-in as a call....you need to pay better attention.

You guys have a great room. I enjoyed the place immensely last March for three days. Compares very favorably to Bellagio and Borgata. Much better than Beau Rivage on many accounts. And you have a poker manager who takes your input with great value. But you cannot retro rules because some poor deaf chap got angled. (perhaps)

BTW...all in buttons are great, and the answer. In use at many MGM properties. First saw them at Mirage years ago.
DaveC95818 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 11:07 AM   #3085
Coasterbrad
veteran
 
Coasterbrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,705
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Johnny, if this does lead to you purchasing "All In" buttons for the room, please consider ordering "Player Behind" buttons as well. Just one big button per table that the dealer puts out in front of their bank when a player is waiting for chips to be delivered. I suggested that for MDL after seeing several issues where somebody would return to the table and play a hand against someone who was playing behind but had made the transaction before the player had returned. They eventually implemented them and it completely solved that problem.
Coasterbrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 11:42 AM   #3086
Monday Night Poker
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Keswick Va
Posts: 80
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

I think these are designed mostly for tournaments, but would help with the $1000 incident mentioned above. https://spinettisgaming.com/products...all-2-5-button
Monday Night Poker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 12:04 PM   #3087
GolfPro
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,295
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyGroomsTD View Post
Just for sake of argument, can you offer specific areas we can improve in running our tournaments? Would love to get the info to make necessary changes.
Since you are collecting suggestions:

1. Align the registration deadlines to the breaks for the daily events. If you look at the numbers for the daily tournaments they range between 45-60 most of the time. Extending it by 30 minutes, instead 4 to 6 (2 levels of 15) will not result in a huge increase. You can try it for a month and change it back to regular if it is hurting the cash games.

Also, making the levels 1-6 15 minutes and 8-End 20 would work well for the flow of the daily tournaments.

2. Have a dedicated floor for tournaments. He would only cater to tournaments period. This will make things get done more proactively. A table that breaks early is a good thing for the room and to the people waiting to play cash games.

3. There is a certain cap for open tournament registrations, there were a few instance where I had to wait for the floor to open the seats, this was after the verification and validation of my ID and tournament fee and then the cashier realises that there are no seats open. She has to find the floor and hence the delay.

4. If possible accommodate the alternatives when the registration ends, the turn over from opening a table (tournament to cash) would be pretty fast in an ongoing tournament. If my point1 is acceptable the 10 additional minutes during the break can be used for this step as well.

5. I also support the dinner break for Sunday. Lvls 1-4 end at 1PM, 5-8 at 3:10, 9-12 at 5:20, 13-16 at 7:30. Even a half hour dinner break (7:30-8:00) is a good start.

6. For the big series have dedicated registration staff in the conference area. This will take the load off the poker room cage and will not hold the cash game players.

7. Integrate the bravo clock with the audio announcements for level changes. This enforces the dealers to change the blinds rather than waiting for an input from floor or the players.

I just want to add one last thing, please don't shut them out because they are low buy-in tournament players, they are more likely to play cash games when they are done with the tournaments. They are revenue generators to the room.

Last edited by GolfPro; 09-26-2017 at 12:14 PM.
GolfPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 02:37 PM   #3088
dcmidnight
adept
 
dcmidnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 737
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC95818 View Post
If you are playing 2-5 NL with a $1000 stack.....you should be paying attention. If you are that guy, listed above, and you have a hearing problem, you should not be wearing earbuds. If you are that guy, as above...and the room you are in does not use all-in buttons, you need to pay better attention.
I agree with all of this.

And also agree that - wholeheartedly - All In buttons should be used.
dcmidnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 03:21 PM   #3089
loonybird
grinder
 
loonybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 528
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcmidnight View Post
I agree with all of this.

And also agree that - wholeheartedly - All In buttons should be used.
In the absence of an all in button, the player should be asked to push something significant forward, even if not the entire stack, so that it doesn't look like a raise to $40. I understand it's the player's responsibility to pay attention, but the dealer could have also done a better job on this one.
loonybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 03:25 PM   #3090
JohnnyGroomsTD
Poker Room Rep
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: the DMVeezy
Posts: 2,792
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

In response to the tournament issues, I will get the team together and make necessary improvement...
JohnnyGroomsTD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 04:18 PM   #3091
GolfPro
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,295
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

JG you are awesome!
GolfPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 04:33 PM   #3092
psujohn
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by loonybird View Post
In the absence of an all in button, the player should be asked to push something significant forward,
This times 1000. The biggest error here is the dealer allowing someone to verbally declare 1 bet and put out chips for another, valid, significantly different amount. In violation of the stated policy of the room which is to make all bets complete.

I kind of thought that rule was annoying and would make things slow but honestly if it were followed all of the time I think it's a net positive. The fact that it's used spottily is pretty much the worst possible situation.
psujohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 05:34 PM   #3093
Rod the Bod
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 188
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasterbrad View Post
Johnny, if this does lead to you purchasing "All In" buttons for the room, please consider ordering "Player Behind" buttons as well.
+1.

I don't see any downside to using "all in" and "playing behind" buttons, but over the years I've seen countless terrible situations that could've been avoided with this one simple fix. Yes, players should pay attention, but the cost of making the relatively innocent mistake of missing some key information shouldn't be this costly, especially if dealers aren't doing everything in their power to make all actions clear.
Rod the Bod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 12:57 PM   #3094
Mr Sandbag
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 251
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

I was playing on the next table over when the $1k all in debacle happened. Sure, you could argue that it's on the players to pay attention, but when the current bet size is $20 and someone makes it $1k but cuts out $40, you're bound to run into problems without all in buttons. This can also be easily used as an angle.

Also, how did the board get run out so quickly? I thought the rule (that nobody seems to follow) is the pot must be made right before moving on to the next street. If MGM isn't going to implement all in buttons, dealers MUST be required to follow this rule. Or at the very least when the player above cuts out $40 because he doesn't think the bet is $1k, he should be allowed to surrender the $40 and fold. It's just so bad for the game and for the room when a recreational player loses $1k because there is no indication of an all in.
Mr Sandbag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 06:30 PM   #3095
DryAngel
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 369
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

I tend to ask the dealer to repeat the bet if it looks odd and sometimes ask multiple times because they mumble or turn their face away when talking. Ends up irritating the dealer and takes time, not my problem as it is my money. But it detracts from enjoyment of the game.

All in button eliminates such problems. Is there a reason they aren't your preferred solution JG?
DryAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 06:35 PM   #3096
DryAngel
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 369
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Another thing, a week ago I bought 2 friends from a old home game to 1/3 for the first time casino poker. They both had very chatty dealers and were bored with the constant chatter. Ended up going to craps instead. I have had the same experience a few times at 2/5.

The dealers seem to be treated well, but some seem to be forgetting customer service and not focusing on moving the game along. Balance is hard, but I hope this gets addressed.
DryAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 07:01 PM   #3097
dcmidnight
adept
 
dcmidnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 737
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

I'm not sure what JG can do about chatty dealers to be honest. If he says something in some sort of staff memo, then you're just left with a bunch of pissy dealers who are going to be afraid to talk to anyone. I dont want that either. But there are definitely a few dealers that tend to just deal the cards/board as fast as they can just to get back to whatever conversation they were in. Again - on a list of "bad things" about a poker room, this is pretty near the bottom of things to worry about for me.
dcmidnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2017, 03:02 AM   #3098
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,005
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Obviously game focus needs to be #1 priority, but I prefer having chatty dealers. Keeps the game lighthearted.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2017, 07:47 AM   #3099
saigonese
stranger
 
saigonese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 11
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Obviously game focus needs to be #1 priority, but I prefer having chatty dealers. Keeps the game lighthearted.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Johnny, please help convince me that when you recruit a dealer you are looking at, among other things:
1. the ability to entertain players and keep the game lighthearted by casual and sustained conversation.
2. the ability to chat with players who are not in the hand, and at the same time talk to and look at players who are in the hand.
I mentioned these to one of your dealers, and she said that she is good at "multi tasking".
saigonese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2017, 12:28 PM   #3100
GolfPro
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,295
Re: MGM National Harbor Resort & Casino (Oxon Hill, MD); FAQ in OP

Anyone have the experience of playing Sports Junkies poker tournament at Borgata. Appreciate some insight.

Heard it usually carries big fields and is scheduled for Oct 11-12 at MGM.
GolfPro is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online