Yes and Hero is bound to an all-in. Hero also did something confusing and potentially misleading by throwing out 2 chips instead of an amount that would cover Villain. Villain could have been distracted, listening to headphones or just generally not paying attention.

Do you really think that Villain wanted to go all-in and reconsidered in the 3 seconds it took the dealer to confirm that it was an all-in bet and not 2 chips? Or do you think it's more likely that he for whatever reason misunderstood the amount being bet by a significant factor?

My only problem with allowing a button straddle is that it increases the size of the smallest game. The UTG straddle doesn't have quite the same effect because it's clearly not advantageous to the player to straddle UTG. It's arguable that even a B straddle is disadvantageous but at any rate it's not nearly as disadvantageous. And that has nothing to do with order of acting pre-flop but rather order of acting post flop.

At the very least if I go to the casino intending to play 1/3 with $900 in my pocket I assume I have 3 "full enough" buy-ins. If I then find it's a 1/3/6 game I'm forced to buy in for $500 and have < 2 buy-ins.

If someone always chops the blinds, it gives the person to his right an advantage over others because he'll never have to play his SB heads up vs the BB out of position. Is your solution to ban chopping?

If you were to perform a similar analysis to compare players in the BB who sit to the right of a player who never straddles and a player who always straddles. You'll see that the UTG straddle causes "unfairness" as well under your definition.

If you're arguing against straddles in general then fine, but arguing against only MS straddles on the basis of fairness isn't valid.

Since the mods are debating containing this which means it could be weeks... (TONGUE IN CHEEK GUYS!)

Clearly you should straddle every time the BTN doesn't. That gives you the most advantageous position more often than anyone else. If that means you straddle 3 times out of 6 then you get 6+6+6+6+1+2, right? Meanwhile, seat 4 gets 1+1+1+1+5+6. You're WAY AHEAD now!

+1 for no MS straddles at 5/10+ NL

I do think the more/less action argument may break down between the stakes. I can see how it might add action at 1/3 or 2/5, but at 5/10 it ends up tightening everyone up imo


Edit: I've also yet to see a single person come in and straddle every button. I can only surmise that all of you arguing in favor of a MS straddle don't play in the game.

Are a majority of people buying in up to the max in 1-3 -- 2-5 ?


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By "every button" do you mean every position? Or "their button every orbit"?

This is true, but (a) it only changes the relative position of the person who has chosen to straddle or not, and (b) it comes at a significant cost the the straddler. The straddler is "buying" position, paying equity to all other players at the table, but not changing the relative position of the other players with with respect to each other.

Also true, but again, this comes at the cost of the straddle, which may not always be worth it just to gain position.

What my example was intended to show is that the unfairness of the button straddle is mostly because it affects the relative position among those who are not straddling. In particular, it makes the blinds worse off relative to everyone in the field. If it only made them worst off relative to the straddler, I don't think this would be nearly as bad, as at least the straddler has paid for this privilege.

I wouldn't mind the button straddle much if they didn't force to blinds to act before all the other players who didn't straddle. This is what creates the real unfairness.

And my point is that the disadvantage to you in that seat comes with a balancing disadvantage to the player who's straddling. It's a trade-off.

But if you really dislike getting straddled when you're in the blinds, you can always request a seat change to the right of the straddler...

There is a balancing disadvantage between the blinds and the player who is straddling. That is true with button straddles and UTG straddles.

But there is NO balancing disadvantage between the blinds and the other players in the field who now get to act after the blinds. These players gain additional positional advantage at no cost. This is ONLY true of button straddles, not UTG straddles.

And the solution of "just change seats" seems kind of silly to me. It's certainly true that if someone straddles my blind on the button, I will try to change seats out of that blind. But you are just shifting the unfairness.
Suppose a casino adopted the rule "The 1 seat always gets the button twice in a row". Would that be a good rule simply because if you thought it was unfair, you can always just switch to the 1 seat?

At MGMNH, are there games at the same blind level where some allow the straddle and others don't?

This analysis needs a simple understanding of game theory. If one person is straddling the button, then the Nash equilibrium is that all players will straddle, thus making the game fair.

For example, if Seat 1 decides to straddle when it's their button, then Seat 2 will do the same, as we generally agree that it's +EV to do so. Then Seat 3 will come to the same conclusion, and so forth.

As such, if a room offers a Mississippi straddle, you should see every player in every game doing so. Otherwise, they are not making optimal decisions.

their button every orbit

Well I can't speak for 5/10 but I've definitely seen people come in at 2/5 and 1/3 and straddle their button every orbit.

And I'd advise against surmising too much from one thread.

No, you're not. The 2/5 games are literally randomly mixed in with the 1/3 games up front. Please put them in the back or something near the doors so there's some sort of easy pattern to recognize.

played at the new room twice and have had good experiences both times, with the exception of 1 interaction with a floor.

I ask for a table change from one table to another (both 9 handed at the time, and was my first request for a table change ever). His response to me was that they don't usually do specific table changes. I gave him a weird look said ok and walked away. Once I get two table lengths away from him he decides to shout quite loudly "This isn't the kind of room where you can just try to follow the fish around!" I stopped, turned, gave him the same weird look and kept moving. I walked 20 feet away, found a different floor, asked for the same table change, and was promptly moved and even thanked for asking before moving.
Just a small encounter that really rubbed me the wrong way...

Also I was told that it is MGM policy to NOT ALLOW HOODIES on while at the table. My hoodie helps dramatically with my anxiety. I wear it to block out all the excess noise and people. Please reconsider this policy. Not wearing my hoodie makes me feel extremely uncomfortable playing in your facility.

Yes, you're right. (Setting my tongue in cheek answer aside

It's true that other players in the game can make choices that put you at a disadvantage and puts different seats at more or less of a disadvantage.

But like others have said, you can counter-balance. You can start straddling and regain some of the balance. You can encourage seat 2 to do the same, and point out that if only some people straddle, everyone else loses some advantage.

You can also seat change and be on the other side of the straddlers, once seat 4 opens up, and benefit from it rather than suffer from it.

The point is not that it's more or less advantageous but that its NOT UNFAIR. Unfair would mean only SOME people can exercise the option.

But everyone can exercise the option, and it changes the game, so not accepting it and complaining that it's unfair is just whinging.

If only there were some way you could look at to determine what tables were 1/3 and what were 2/5. Like, some display screen with a list of tables per game. Or... I dunno .. chip plaquards -

Or - HEY, I've got it - each table could make players put out chips at the start of the hand representing the blind levels - and in 1/3 they'd be putting out 1 white and 3 white (or 1 red) and at 2/5 they'd put out TWO white in the SB...

Seriously - could we whinge more?

So MS straddle is allowed at all NL games? Didn't realize that. Thought it was only 5/10+.

At 5/10 there seems to be an unspoken agreement among regs to not button straddle in order to keep the game good overall. If a reg sat and started straddling every button, the other regs would follow suit and the game would suffer. That pros are passing on a potential advantage should speak to the players' dislike of the MS straddle.

Do we really generally agree that it's +EV to button straddle? I don't think it is - certainly not in all cases and certainly not for all people.

See attached Map. All lime green tables are 2/5. The lone brown table is 5/10. They are all on the left side of the room as you walk in...

No. we won't spread multiple games at the same limit with different rules. Too confusing for recs.

According to the FAQ it shouldn't even be at 5/10.

But I'm not talking about specifically MGM and 1/3 & 2/5 BTN straddle. I'm talking about BTN straddling in general. I'm 1.5 hours from MGM and tend to be at the Shoe more than anywhere else, and at the Shoe there are def players who btn straddle every orbit.

That said, MGM just opened. IF MGM allows the MI straddle, players will eventually figure it out. Literally 4 days in is far too soon to be talking about "unspoken agreements between regs".

Nobody is a reg, yet.

Is there a new Michigan straddle?

That may be and that would suck if everyone started doing it. Point is that there are a bunch of people arguing for the MS straddle that haven't actually been playing in the game.