If you thought about the big picture consequences of eliminating promos you wouldn't actually believe this.

bellagio/aria have no promo drop.

Do you think Bellagio and Aria are good analogues for MGMNH?

Grunching thread: how are the games on weekdays? I haven't played any poker in over 10 years, is it reasonable to expect to grind out a profit with a basic strategy? I'm about to start working every other week so I have some free time and I live nearby.

A basic strategy will serve you well at the blackjack tables.

Seriously, just go play. It'll be fun.

As a gross oversimplification, I'd say that even bad players now have a decent understanding of basic strategy as compared to ten years ago; many of them just don't have the discipline to do the right/difficult thing. So you might not find the games as profitable as they used to be.

That said, MGMNH is not a bad place to make your return and see how rusty you are.

Bellagio and Aria have 10 competitors within 10 minutes, but somehow still manage to draw biggest crowds. MGMNH has no direct competitors. It takes too long to go to Live because of traffic.

In that respect, MGM are well positioned to do what they want. But let's be honest here, casinos are not here to do the best thing for poker. They are here to rake the hell out of the games, as much as the market will bear.

They canceled the tourney for safety reasons so dealers don't have to brave the weather? My ass. Did they close craps and BJ tables so the dealers don't have to brave dangerous weather conditions too? What an amusing excuse. The one time there was (probably) going to be a good overlay, they canceled it. That's why.

Id probably say there are fewer than 20 casinos which are better comparisons. Id guess the closest comparison is foxwoods/mohegan. East coast casino with only 2 major players in the area. Ive never been though which is why i mentioned bellagio/aria. Looks like foxwoods has a lower rake and doesnt have BBJ drop.

I also think Johnny knows more about poker room management than any of us. But I dont think its reasonable to dismiss no promo drop out of hand as if its some “Good on paper” suggestion.

I personally like the promo drop, because I can play whenever id like, and rarely play weekends, and i think its sorta fun, so i most certainly get more out than i put in, but i think its personal preference.

Foxwoods is 5+1

No, you are distinguishing the table type (tourney/cash) as a separate class to keep seperate, they consider all poker promo dollars taken in as promo dollars, able to be applied to promos for all poker players, they are actually pretty close in how it shakes out, and there is nothing preventing participation crossover except that some cash players don't play tourneys.

Bet some higher stakes cash players get some promo benefits that they didnt pay in... If for no other reason than they occasionally play lower for a promo or while waiting for higher game and bink something.

And if the gurantees attract enough players, no promo dollars would get used for the overlays, and the pendulum would swing back with tourney sourced promo dollars supplementing cash game promos. And bringing more plauers to the room and cash games (as players drop out of tourneys, many play cash)

Those tourney guarentees benefit cash games, you just don't agree with the strategy, but this isnt unfair, or unethical as some claim.

And some rooms , not mgmnh, do charge admin fees. They justify this because it costs labor and materials to administor the funds, set up the promotions, dealing with a varety of admistration tasks.

So they can justify somewhat effectively raking the promo fees.

Many many charities don't give 100% of the gathered dollars to the underlying cause. It costs to adminstor the funds. Some abuse this, most don't. Now I know this business isnt a charity (far from it) and mgmnh doesnt do this but they could and many rooms e.g CAZ, does this...

Id love to hear an example of how tourney sourced promo dollars supplement cash games.

OK. 100k in tourney promo funds come in, but no overlays are needed, so 0k in tourney promo funds are used.

200k in cash game promo funds come in. 250k in cash game promo funds are used for various cash game promos.

50k in tourney promos just got used for cash. 50k in tourney funds is still in the bank, and may get used for overlays in the future, or may also get used for future cash promos, depending on what happens in the future.

Your numbers are way off. It is more like it $198,000 for cash, and $2000 for tournaments.

My numbers could be $1 tournies and a million in cash and they would still work to explain how cash could benefit from tourney promos if there are no overlays.

You mean capitalism is alive in America? Fantastic. They built a product people are voluntarily willing to support.

I was glad to read both sides of argument concerning promo funds. Personally, I can see both sides of view even if I lean more towards agreeing with Johnny's position.

I'm curious, for the people that are upset with the way poker promotion money is handled, what is your action plan? Now that your voices have been heard, what next?

They need to work toward either making it illegal or bad business by lobbying the appropriate authorities or generating a boycott. But we all know that won't happen, unfortunately.

I personally don't care either way about whether there's a promotion drop, what it's used for, etc., but it is sad when people complain without being willing to back it up with solutions and action.

Really? Its sad?

Its sad to voice displeasure over something you think is wrong and unfair?

The solution is easy. Stop doing it. If the tourney misses the guarantee, the casino makes up the difference. I bet if you took a poll, the vast majority would assume that's whats happening already even if there is some small print that says otherwise. They sure as hell dont put that fact in large print where everyone can see it and know about it.

Organize a boycott? Come on, Man! That's ridiculous. Not only would it be a waste of time but Im sure MGM would ban the boycotters would make the whole thing a mute point for the boycotters.

+1000

The point is that the goals of MGM have nothing to do with our goals here as poker players. It is not a question of being surprised. It is just a reminder that these casinos are not here to serve/help anyone.

Actually, we know exactly how casinos feel about winning players. Online poker has foreshadowed the sort of similar progression we see in live. The player pool gets bled too hard by crushers and online poker sites took quite a few steps to lower a winning player's edge. The biggest reason why live casinos are not taking these steps yet (aside from increasing rake) is because poker is very low on their priority list. Keep your fingers crossed that MGM doesn't implement the Stars/PP/UB/etc playbook.

Well if yall knuckleheads wanna boycott over 50 cents that is going to another player not even the casino, i dont think the casino would even care enough to ban you.

Not to resort to whataboutism but there must be some greater injustice you could point your rage towards in your life than this. Hell, i think the second dollar of the promo drop is a way more worthy battle.

Appreciate the correction. Guess I shouldve just stuck to the weaker comparison that i had actually been to instead of trusting fly by night websites.

And rumor has it FW is about to switch to 5+2, so another one bites the dust.

Really. It is sad.

It is sad because repeating the same gripe over and over again when it is both legal and good business for Johnny to keep the status quo shows that you don't understand that it's both legal and good business.

Your "solution" ignores that current practice is both legal and good business. And your assumption that MHMNH would ban boycotters doesn't pass the laugh test.