This ridiculous behavior of tourney players makes me want to quit live tourneys. Every time I make it into the money, these same tourney players aggressively try to coerce me into chopping, it never fails. People who always wanna chop when it gets down to 10 people should probably play a different format of tourneys where they're playing to get 2 or 3 times your money back. Some of us want to go for a bigger score and play for 1st. Leave us the **** alone and stop hounding us for a chop, telling us were bad guys because we dont want to cater to you when you bleed down to 5bb folding every hand you nit.

You know what though, its fun shoving into the blinds of angry nits who try to guilt you into chopping, and seeing them give you a death stare and "wait until I get AA, I'll show you" look and angrily folding their bb again and again. So I will keep playing

Easy solution: decline once and call the floor if they persist after that.

On another topic, there's a different thread about BBJ share to player away from the table.

This prompts me to ask: What's the policy at Maryland Live?

As long as you don't have a missed blind button, you get paid.

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This scenario happened at my table on Saturday.

All the lead up action to the river doesn't matter much. Maybe 80 in the pot. Dry suits but ended with 2-3-4 on board. Two players, opposite ends of the table.

On the river, Player 1 checks. Player 2 bets $45. Player 1 tank calls.

Player 2 tables his hand, face up, 66.

Player 1 glances at his hand up where his neighbors can see and mucks his hand face down. The cards make it to the muck pile. Both cards are physically touching or even somewhat in the pile.

Another player next to P1 says "you folded the winner?".
Player 1 says "oh! I thought he had 56. I had Jacks!" and reaches for his cards which are both in/on the muck pile.

Dealer stops him and calls the floor.

They detail the action correctly to the floor, and the player who mucked says he can pick out which two cards they were. They pull two cards out of the muck and the floor checks them. He rules that the hand is still live because it was "retrievable" and turns the JJ face up.

So, in the end, Player 1 wins the pot with JJ that was mucked face down and made it to the pile.

Pretty questionable all around here. Both the Live rule of pulling cards out of the muck and the reg player who knows he mucked and wasn't going to admit it.

Other player shouldn't of said anything but if it was some old guy who couldn't see I suppose it's fine.

Mike previously confirmed a detailed explanation from a moderator... They want the highest hand to win. These cards were retrievable, and while the actions of others at the table aren’t desirable, and they should be warned...

The ruling is correct.

Not the case, probably 30s and a regular. He knew he mucked, just wouldn't own up to his own mistake. His to live with, I guess.

I get being able to flip em back over if they were still out in the open, but to be pulling cards out of the muck pile, I think that's where my line is that I don't really agree with. Maybe I'll consider that in my playing options. I'm nobody and just my opinion, but that doesn't seem right to me. /shrug

If it was clear what the cards were they are going to be ruled retrievable and allowed to be shown down. The observer who violated one player to a hand is the problem (though he may have thought the hand was dead its still wrong and he should be warned at least).

The general rule is that the cards have to be identifiable and retrievable. In general, the dealer is the one I trust to make that determination. If the dealer isn't sure, then I am not generally going to make the cards live.

It would take a very special circumstance for me to allow the player to name cards and then pull some out and see if they match up. Having said that, if the floor is just doing that as a confirmation step after being satisfied that they are identifiable and retrievable, then I guess that's OK.

As a matter of definition, I will say that the thing that makes cards "mucked" isn't throwing them forward, it is them being jammed into the muck pile so that they are no longer identifiable and retrievable. So I would disagree with the part where the OP says that "the player knew he mucked and wouldn't admit it". If the cards were identifiable, they weren't mucked yet, though the player may have intended to concede.

Depending on timing and how/why the JJ hand wasn't fully mucked, the dealer gets a KITN and retraining about how it is his responsibility to make sure all hands are fully mucked as players are discarding them. If he had done so this whole situation could have been avoided.

This is where it's open for interpretation I guess, the grey area. I would call the cards mucked because upwards of 40-50% of each card (jack) was within the pile. As they were the last cards added to the pile and by the time the commotion starts, everyone on P1's side is watching the cards slide in, they knew which two they were.
My thought was that anything that touches the pile is dead, especially when cards are physically sticking into it. Apparently not the case here. Was curious about it but I see where it's been clarified, so I guess that's how things are at Live.

The comment about "he knew he mucked" was more a personal opinion of the player. He's definitely a regular who knows the game and was very aware he conceded the hand. It wasn't until the neighbor got involved that it became an issue and until the floor came, he didn't appear know this rule either.

If the dealer mucked them but they were still identifiable, then the dealer needs some retraining. no cards a dealer jams into the muck pile (except the first mucked hand I guess, because there is no pile yet) should ever be identifiable.

FYI, this is known as the "magic muck", and is generally considered to be a bad rule, and is not actually the rule almost anywhere (anymore), especially not in well run, larger rooms.

got a postcard about a free cruise certificate:
nov 3, 2-10pm

in the past, all platinums qualified even if you didnt get the postcard

Whose MUG is going off today?

There was one today (10/20) for Matt Vaughn at 2pm. Dan Zack was playing as well.


The next big MUG will be Andrew Neeme, Brad Owen, and at least Johnny Vibes confirmed in December. Sounds like there may be even more possibly?

Yes on 12/10 Andrew Neeme, Brad Owen hosting with Johnny Vibes, Matt Vaughan, and Trevor Savage seemingly conformed. Will be epic


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PSA

Starting Monday Nov 4, players can redeem their comps for Nandos in the mall.

Enjoy

great post. i don't play tournaments but i often hear the players ***** about all of these things when they're near my cash games. they voluntarily enter them then wanna cry about things like variance or paying the bubble.what a bunch of pussies you need to all agree to pay the bubble boy. it's pathetic. oh boo hoo your queens lost to ace jack offsuit preflop- nobody cares.they're playing 15 blind poker for big pay jumps, then want to cry when 70/30s don't work out 100 percent of the time.they make the silent tablet cash grinders look tolerable.

if you don't like or can't handle tournament variance then don't keep playing them! simple. bunch of entitled babies.

i literally laughed at this.
it reminds me a long time ago in a cash game my friend was playing super aggro just running over people. the guy next to me was bitching about it under his breath. he didn't know we were friends. he shows me a terrible fold he made to my friend and then says " i can't wait to flop a set and bust his ass."

like yea that's the strategy because you're really gonna get paid off when you finally come to life with a monster.

Best day ever!

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I play at Live and MGM and have played at countless other cardrooms. If Player 1 was the last to muck and mucked to the top, with the cards retrievable, and called the cards correctly- that's definitely the right decision - Player 1 Wins.

I've accidentally mucked cards before-- one reason I stopped playing long stretches that go on for more than 8 or 10 hours max. You start to make mistakes.

One hand I remember I was heads up on the Button against 1 Player UTG. I don't remember the hand specifically but I had both a Flush and a set (of 9s I think).

UTG raises $55 on the River. I call. We go to showdown. He shows a straight 9-K.

I typically don't show my hand when only calling and then beat- but in this case I did:

I said: "Damn nice hand" - flipped over my 79s and THE DEALER didn't even really notice. He took my verbal statement of defeat, and the UTG player's straight, and pushed the pot to UTG, then started to pull the cards into a pile.

Another player who was to my Left (SB) pointed out- "Wait he has a flush... Dude didn't you have two spades?"

"Oh yea I did".

The cards at that point had been mucked, and even mixed in.

Long story short, my cards were found, the other player accepted that was the hand I flipped, and I got the pot. He understood.

If the cards can be retrieved and it's clear theres nothing funny going on- the player should be able to pull them back off the top-- when they were clearly the winner in a showdown situation.

People make mistakes and before you know it you might be the one saying wait I misread the board (thinking you had a 2nd best hand) and you muck, when in fact you had the nuts.

It happens and as long as it's not overly complicated to figure out (cards just mucked to top / players see it / could be verified by reviewing the video playback of the table) I see no issue with that ruling.

🥳

--klez

Mega just hit, Quad Aces vs Royal for 162K

Just like in WSOP.


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platinum bday month bonuses:
$35 free slot play (wasnt it higher last year?)

i wonder what the bday food comp bonus is this year?
last year was $150