PLO tourney? 250 buy-in? (Just to clarify that was a request)

I've been a reg in this room since it opened but after some of the complete and total abject bull**** I witnessed there last night I may never go back.

Wildly inconsistent floor rulings.

Dealers turning a blind eye to abusive, disgusting, utterly deplorable behavior (although one particular situation was eventually righted after it was brought straight to a floorperson).

Incredibly shady angles shot by the anglyest angleshooters ever to shoot an angle and nobody batting a ****ing eye even though it was so beyond obvious that something was very, very wrong.

No fewer than 2 dealers taking their personal problems into the box with them and being outright nasty to people who did absolutely nothing out of line.

If this is considered normal or at all acceptable I'm going to the horseshoe from now on. This is outrageous.

Please DM me.


Same as above


Thanks


Mike

Must have been a full moon out on NYE. I will offer this observation....either by design of staffing or the floor layout or both....it seems to take forever to get a Supervisor's attention when called at a table.

^^ It is always like that there, especially with the tables in the back on the first floor. Never seems to be a floor person around when you need one. They have plenty of floor people as well most of the time.

3pm on New Year's Day and Bravo shows all 52 tables in use with 160 waiting on the 1/2 list. Looks like people really like a good promo on a holiday!

The floor ruling has its own thread in the general LCP section (I'll link it in a second but it's the thing at 2/2 PLO where a pot was awarded to the losing hand at showdown).

Players are acting like *******s with alarming frequency and dealers don't do a thing about it, presumably because these guys tip well but really I don't know why. The other regs mostly put up with it. I did not. I approached a floor supervisor about an extremely abusive player at my table (yes, he was mean to me, but I wasn't the only person in his line of fire and the dealer did NOTHING beyond issue a casual warning "sir, no profanity at the table" which accomplished precisely DICK and the guy just continued without objection or interruption thereafter). The player was ultimately asked to leave for the night, the other regs determined that I was responsible for his ejection, now several people who I was on good terms with 2 days ago are no longer speaking to me because it's my fault that dead money left the game.

A dealer or two launched into unprovoked personal attacks. I just tried to laugh it off and didn't say anything in the moment, which I now regret. At the end of the day, this isn't that big of a deal because dealers are human and sometimes they have ****ty days and say and do things that aren't the greatest JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER HUMAN IN HISTORY but in light of everything else that happened, I felt it was necessary to address this as well, or at least appropriate to do so.

It's the floor ruling that I find the most disturbing because it sets a dangerous precedent for angles in the future. Especially now that some of the regs are mad at me... What happens if I'm in a pot with one of them across the table, but another is sitting next to me and I table a winning hand? Will the guy next to me say "oh her hand should be killed because someone told her she had Broadway, award the pot to my friend with the set?" Apparently cards don't always speak here so the floor could very well rule my hand dead, even if I tabled a winner because someone might say that optah was violated. Granted, this doesn't seem terribly likely, but I shouldn't have to fear this. And now, I do.

Here's the thread I posted about the floor ruling:

Weird floor ruling at 2/2 PLO: cards speak, right?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh....php?t=1579253

I posted previously about a session back in August when a seemingly drunk reg - who wasnt even in a game - was dropping F bombs and walking around from table to table pulling this act, F bombing his reg-friends. The dealer laughed it off "Oh its just (name)'s thing, he does this".

Seemingly this guy knew most of the people he was being obnoxious to and calling names but that wasnt completely clear. It was a 5-10 minute complete s-show scene, with every dealer/floor just standing around watching. No one said anything until he left and walked downstairs. It was awkward/unbelievable since I'm not a reg, didn't know him and really wished the games could have just kept being dealt without needing to watch this guy's act.

But every floor/supervisor stood around and did absolutely nothing about it.

It's a tricky thing because a lot of the guys who want to drink and get loud are good for the game. If the floors get on them right away, people complain that "this isn't a library." If they don't, a different group of people complains that they're being obnoxious.

I'm not saying that's an excuse for anyone being made to feel uncomfortable; that shouldn't happen. If someone is being obnoxious, talk to a floor. If they don't do anything, ask to speak to a shift. If they are asked to enforce the rules as written, they'll do so. But if no one has complained, there are good reasons to err on the side of letting it be.

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You're absolutely right and I'll put up with quite a bit. I'll take a lot of crazy **** from a lot of crazy people, provided that it stands to increase my bottom line, but there's a limit. If that boundary is crossed, I'm going to say something, and I don't feel that it's fair to target me for doing it.

That's not weird, that's gross.

For the same reason, especially as a non-reg who only plays once a month or so - I'm not going to get up in front of a roomfull of people and ask to speak to a floor...and then after that ask to speak to a supervisor when they do nothing.

I have no problem with drunk players - within reason. But when a guy is walking around and making a long drawn out scene - and it is very much affecting the speed at which more than one game is being dealt - then that's a problem. Even worse was the fact that everyone - players and mgmt - accepted that is sort of just the way it is.

But this just sort of seems to be the way the room is. And I realize that as a non-reg I dont really have much of a leg to complain/stand on here. If the regs dont mind poop like this, then thats probably the way the floor is going to run things.

Yes, but it's important to note that the regs *might* mind at least to a degree. However, that's totally irrelevant if nobody ever speaks up. This shouldn't be the responsibility of the players; the staff should be doing their goddamn jobs if someone is being a jackass/making people uncomfortable/negatively impacting the game. It should be a non-issue. This post shouldn't exist. It should get NO airtime.

But I said something, and now I have a target on my back simply because I refused to allow myself to be treated like something a drunk degenerate stepped in. I didn't have him thrown out. That was the floor's decision. But it isn't one that would have been made without my input, therefore I am responsible for the decline in the quality of that game, and now people are angry at me for doing something that I shouldn't have ever had to do in the first place.

I think my reluctance to return until I've been assured that this has been resolved is at least understandable.

Also, the floor shouldn't be willing to tolerate behavior simply because the regs don't verbally object. Management shouldn't be letting the players decide what is and isn't acceptable. It really ought to be the other way around.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but there is a sizable portion of the player pool that disagrees with you. Many players adopt the attitude that they're adults and they can speak up if something bothers them. Otherwise, leave them bloody well alone.

Obviously that creates some awkward situations where some people aren't always comfortable speaking up. But this ultimately is a service industry. They should be responsive to the desires of the guests. Uncomfortable or not, the onus is on guests to voice their opinions. The most important thing for floors to do is be open, receptive, and non judgmental in the moment so players (regulars and otherwise) feel comfortable voicing those opinions.

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Karl, I'm well aware that my opinion is not universally held. That's fine.

What's not fine is having the dealers utterly fail to enforce the rules with consistency. It's also not fine to be shunned or ridiculed for speaking up when something unacceptable is happening and no action has been taken.

No player whose hands are clean should be made to feel ashamed of requesting enforcement of the house rules. If the dealers did it themselves, this would never happen, but that won't come to pass unless players start saying "hey, this isn't ok" with some type of regularity because EVERY dealer is primarily concerned with getting tipped. If the *******s tip well, and the regs don't mind (and tip reasonably), the dealer has no motivation whatsoever to stop unacceptable behavior unless someone is in danger of being physically harmed. They want money and won't take any action which might jeopardize their checking account balance unless they have a damn good reason to do otherwise.

I think it's pretty ****ed up, but this doesn't seem like it'll change.

I was thinking of retiring anyway. This might be the nail in the coffin.

It seems like no one cares if you come back

Mike sure seems to. Who are you again?

1) Per Mike's request, I have contacted him privately and this is being dealt with.

2) The dealers, in both cases, were simply at the table when a conversation was happening between other people. Prior to interjecting themselves, they were not involved in the discussion in any way and they were not the topic of conversation. This is also being addressed.

Couldn't agree with you more. That being said, our opinion is clearly in the minority of other players/MDL staff. There should be a certain level of...decorum is not the right word I dont think, but a certain level of commonly accepted behavior that people shouldn't have to ask to be enforced.

The kind of stuff I've seen tolerated/laughed off over the past year is the kind of stuff you would never see - for example - at Aria or Bellagio. I was in a game last month at Bellagio where a well know reg was tossed - for just the day mind you - but he was tossed for using the F bomb towards another player 3 times. Warned, warned again, tossed.

And I'll be honest, as much as I have really enjoyed my time at MDL, for me, its a matter of hanging on until MGM opens. For a 10-15 minute drive, my tolerance level is certainly going to be higher than it would be for an hour+ drive - just the way it is for me. So if this kind of behavior is acceptable to the floor/staff then for the time being, I'm OK with that.

Its just not worth the hassle/effort in trying to get other people to care about something they clearly dont care about.

Just IMO of course, as always, YMMV.

I have experienced a few situations that I would deem unacceptable if I were running a room. I told someone about them right away and the staff handled them immediately.

I understand that people wish to have their minds read, their personal levels of decorum respected, etc., but that's hard to do without creating a largely sterile environment. I personally wouldn't mind such an environment, but many of the degenerates who are "dead money" prefer the opposite.

I've advocated on these forums the idea that if ALL poker rooms enforced high standards of etiquette/decorum, poker players would have no choice but to behave well. But if even one room were to have lower standards, that room would be the busiest in the world. It's unfortunate, but I truly believe that's reality.

+1
Palm Beach gets a ton of business. Their rake is obnoxious and much of the time there are zero floor people on the floor. The "atmosphere" there is unique, let's say.

The rooms decide what the decorum is, not the players. Parx and best bet Jax are two examples of large rooms that shutdown shenanigans by design.

For me, MDL is somewhere in the middle. They decide if they stay there or move in one direction or another, not the players.

Sorry to break from all the drama but does anyone know if either the poker room or anywhere at MD Live shows UFC pay per view view events?

Thanks but you were losing me to Chicagoland come July anyway so I hope there aren't too many tears over this

Rapini has a point and I'll tolerate a LOT but I sometimes can't deal and I shouldn't have to. Maybe I should get used to it. Hammond will probably be orders of magnitude worse, although it was fine when I visited in December.

My choices seem to be to get thicker skin, continue to speak up when necessary, or quit. Or some combination of those things.