The Wynn Cotai (wynn palace) removed their poker tables even many months before Covid for more baccarat and remember I talked to somebody there about it, they were nice but seemed to have zero interest in upholding the poker, so I doubt very much you'll find any games there. But you can always check if you are bored at the Venetian. The mainland Wynn will be where it's at, as usual, also your best bet for Omaha

Wynn has games running. 50/100, 100/200 and 1000/2000. 10 handed, which means snorefest, and 250 rake. Waiting list of 41 people for 50/100 at 10pm. When you do finally get in a game, they are awful. Fairly certain half the table knew / were soft playing each other. Very suspicious about game integrity overall. Would very much like covid zero to be reintroduced so we can go back to 3 handed tables and actually having some fun playing the game.

I think I mentioned here how I thought coming out of the pandemic poker would be pushed by casinos because it’s a social game, but that once the initial period was done they’d revert to form. A few months ago, Sands had reinstated their poker room in the place it used to be in 2019. I went and had a look on my last trip and the poker room has gone (again), replaced with baccarat tables - which predictably had nobody playing at them. Clearly there is a demand for the game with waiting lists like this, they just don’t give a toss. From what I saw, Macau casino tables are currently running at ~40% occupancy so god help poker when it gets back to what it used to be.

It’s the hope that gets you. The hope that this time will be different.

Know 10 handed is a snooze fest and the waiting lists are bad, but can the games be profitable when you finally get to a seat these days?

Pre Covid if you made standard sleepy nit adjustments I thought even 50/100 at the Venetian was profitable. Paid for a 3 day trip in 5-8 hours like clockwork and the rest was profit.
Just steal blinds all day and when you get any pushback just run unless you have a monster.

Basically both Wynn and Venetian are back offering poker, the games are pretty similar to before covid, ie. Wynn pretty tight games 10handed rake 250max for 50/100 and 300 max for higher, Venetian's rake at 500hkd max for lower and 700hkd max for 200/400 will make sure what you take home isn't much different between the 2 rooms even if players' VPIP at Venetian isn't 12% like wynn lol. Anyone that wants soft loose games at low rake definitely should go to US instead... AINEC.

And bear in mind mainland China tourists are still way down in numbers compared to pre-covid so at the tables you are going to get same or worse pro:rec ratio..

Lastly Venetian has a new crew with all new dealers and supervisors, with a lot of dealer errors, a lot of new rules that need ironing out(eg now minimum buyin is reduced to 20bb so you can have a few guys sitting there with 1/20th the bigger stacks which make no sense..) , plus it's in a VERY cramped location. The chaotic room will be better in a few months when dealers and supervisors are more experienced... and you'll see more tourists in both rooms by then too. Or better yet just go to LA or something... year round action games unlimited tables.

Oh and the person(s) who claimed there was 25/50 and half rake offered was not being honest, even 50/100 is being phased out for Friday/Sat as they open more tables of 100/200 and there is definitely no such thing as half rake lol.

The Venetian was a little bit like a different beast back in the day, as the monstrous rake did a fairly good job of keeping serious players away. But maybe you just ran good. I just cant see making a lot of money long term with those kind of house contributions. I remember some time ago I played a 2/5 game in Panama City, Panama that had 5% uncapped rake and made a lot of money in it, partly because that rake obv kept all remotely serious players away and everyone was just terrible but then again, the sample size was like 20h, so like nothing, maybe I just ran good...
Thanks for the update 663366, I'll check it out when I find the time, but too busy RL stuff in HK presently.....

Curious about HK actually, haven't been in 5 years.. heard they have a tourist incentive scheme or something the subsidizes your airfare, might check it out sometime..

i have a really tough time believing it's back to the pre covid rec/pro ratio of 9 pros from europe waiting their turn for a guy from India to try to impress his valet who stands behind him watching

if so that's incredible they went back so fast given how bad the games were then

also agree with fwwm that it sounds like run good since the best adjustment vs a table of solid nits is to not play - also pretty ridiculous to think that a very good pro from sweden who happens to vpip 9% won't adjust when he notices one of his colleagues is exploiting the other nits - these aren't mindless drones, they are very intelligent and high level thinking players who are being nits because in a game of 9 pros waiting their turn vs the indian businessman the optimal method is to nit it up and wait your turn to nut peddle cause the indian will shove his 400bb stakc with any top pair or better

happy to hear games are running again, would love to head back out there again

fwiw, while the usa games I play in are much smaller here, the level of play in the US is far worse than it ever was in macau, games in macau could be wild but it was cause they wanted to do some things for fun and open shove 94 not because they thought it was a good play but because it was their birthday and they wanted some gambool

people in the usa are bad despite trying their best and thinking they are good - decades ago when most my play was in asia i kept reading stories about how easy the games were and i genuinely believed it but now playing in usa#1 for literally the first time I gotta say the level of play here is far worse than it was in macau 15 years ago

granted, i think if i played equivalent stakes in usa it'd probably be higher level, main thing is i've yet to see them spread (but haven't really been actively seeking them out just popping into casinos when passing by)

Can confirm what's posted above on the games available and mostly filled with regs. Disagree with how they might get better when more Chinese tourists return, the chinese players are pretty serious about the game and always talk strategy at the table. Nobody drinks while playing poker in macau that's the difference. Vegas or Florida or LA you'll have multiple drinkers at the table any weekend night and sometimes during the week. If not you move to a table that has. Macau lacking low to mid stakes also deters casual players sitting down to play. Average stack size in the lowest 50/100 game is around 20-25k hkd. That's more than $3000 US. There just aren't loads and loads of new players willing to throw away multiples of 3K usd and call that "entertainment". If they have that much to waste they'll go to baccarat instead of waiting hours for a seat at poker.

The games are softer in the States, more tables, more player's and most importantly have the luxury to game select.
Macau has around 16 tables only.

50/100 are peasant stakes there, on occassions, they will eliminate 50/100 and make 100/200 as the minimum stakes. Only in Macau is this possible.

Vegas has standup game, 7-2 game, partying etc... Rare in Macau, regs study hard to get better.

first time in macau i was traveling with a bunch of non poker players

in beijing, there were regularly 1/2 rmb (1:1 with hkd) games going on and you'd rarely find anything above 5/10

so i walk into the gran lisboa, spend about 20 minute searching for it and finally find the poker room, it's only like 3 tables and only one is running and there's like 5 people playing

i've heard it's high stakes here and literally just walked in so didn't notice the min at most table games was 1k hkd min so am figuring it's probably 5/10 or 10/20 and figure with my 3k hkd i will have enough for a buyin or two

i sit down and pull out my roll, still not knowing what the stakes were, am informed I don't have enough to cover the min buyin as this is 100/200 game

these were nosebleed stakes as far as I was concerned but it looked like a fun table of mainlanders who were all talking about paying for their mistresses titty jobs and two different guys went all in blind before getting dealt cards so I was thinking this is probably a good table - so i went and found my buddies who likewise were sticker shocked at the cost to play table games and were just watching some russian girls dance on stage in a disapointingly tame show for what you'd expect of russian showgirls in a debaucherous asian city

luckily was able to scrounge together a min buyin pooling buddies funds and that was the start of my macau adventure

one place across the street from gran lisboa (forget the name but think it was crystal palace) started offering 10/25 briefly around 2013 or so to try to build a niche audience of mostly commuters from zhuhai and would often go and play there for an hour or two in order to get free sandwiches before going to the wynn

but yeah there's definitely an audience for lower stakes there but they just don't spread it, there's even been times I saw a 25/50 or 50/100 game and noticed there were seats open so asked to play there until my spot in line opened up and they wouldn't let me because they were waiting for the table to get to 5 handed so they could close it

how do people who don’t live in HK/Macau buy in and cash out of the 1,000/2,000 hkd game with its large currency amounts?

do they wire money to Wynn? are there special rules for this game not available to regular players?

Back in the "olden" days, the main "tool" people used is basically swapping Stars money for cash at whatever 0.95-0.98 value for newcomers from pros who are leaving Macau. If you were valuable client to a casino outside from poker, certain other private wires could be made. Obviously, Wynn system as well. Some opened an HKD account with their corresponding large bank at home and could deposit to it in HK. Many other peculiar ways to list, some legal, some borderline. Obviously just hand carry and pretend like a lovely sweet broke tourist was very common.

Now it's a bit more complicated and will largely depend on what territory you're coming from. A bit tired to write, but just at the top of my head can basically carry chips across MO-HK border. Exchange them here for cash at whatever same 0.95-0.98, then buy crypto to your wallet at one of HK physical crypto exchange firms. That was just one of random odd examples.

As for "special rules", unless you have a private official host from a casino(which they would only really care to provide if you grind the pit afterwards at a decent volume) everything else would be a scam.

Visited Wynn and Venetian this Sunday, basically can just confirm the other recent posts and what I've said initially. Waited 4hrs to play for 2hrs. Watched same people do exactly the same moves for those 2hrs. Last 30 mins just ordered a beer, didn't really care about cards, was paying attention to who and how adjusting to game flow. Caught up with an old friend, went to OTT for a drink and see if can find some expat casino execs to have a chat with. None to be found. Took a taxi to Port Plaza where can park HK plates, drove home.

Final verdict: Games are beatable, but your win rate would be HUGELY based on your ability to navigate team playing, not actual vanilla skill. Also after taking in consideration all the expenses and other uncomfortable arrangements you will have to endure in order to actually play turns this endeavour in more of a masturbation festival for bragging rights sake.

Hi everyone, i'm new in this thread,

So basically you can't wire money directly to casinos, just for poker? Are there no major banks or money sending/receiving places like western union in Macau? I assume if u stay there for longer period of time and have a good run, the only way to cashout is in cash? I know things change and probably nobody is up to date, but I would love to know more, have playing in Macau in my bucket list, but it seems very complicated when it comes to logistics. I live in europe, maybe someone can give me tips or share their recent experience on how to move there for a few months.

Thank you

I live in HK so I never had to do that but if wire was not available I would just exchange physical HKD <-> USD, available at many places in HK with very low vig, you'll get better than 0.99 roundtrip. I assume it can be done similarly in Macau, but no personal experience. Prolly the only issue would be the poor English capabilities of most Macanese. Also I remember Wynn offered me several times to wire when it was bigger amounts, I always declined and got cash so I can't tell you what the fees would be but it was something on the table.
Also you used to be able to bring unlimited moneys to/from HK but now you have to declare everything over 100k HKD. But not an issue, just takes some time. Also I assume nowadays moneychangers might ask some questions for really big amounts, but if you avoid the banks, just go to Chungking mansions or something you can probably still avoid that lol.

Most people that want to play higher stakes in macau do it one of two ways:

If you're going for a short time, take 10K USD or more if you wish and declare that amount if it's a lot more than 10k, then once in macau change to HKD at a bank for almost no vig. Don't change at a casino.

If you're going for longer, just take 10k usd and grind it up to move up esp if you're a good player. Or once at the tables ask around, there's always someone leaving soon that wants to swap their HKD for your USD or whatever. If you want to do bitcoin same, ask at the tables esp 100/200+.

Re: waiting lists, it's almost better to go during the week. Shorter lists or straight on. Weekend lists are so long and you wait for up to 6-8 hours sometimes for lower stakes to sit down and play with regs. It's not the regs that kill you either, it's the long wait. Casino don't mind ofc, peeps that can't stand the long wait usually play some baccarat or roulette.

Haven’t been since currency controls changed, in my home country I opened a HKD bank account and just withdrew from ATM in either HK or Macau all the money needed.

With cash winnings I’d generally go to physical currency exchange in HK (I’m sure you can do it in Macau too) and concert to my home currency, then bring it with me and declare at airport.

I’ve been brought HKD home before and changed it in my country but the fee was horrible.

What are the rules now? Can we leave Macau/HK with >$10kUSD? But need to declare?

Yes, no problem, just need to declare if it's over 100k HK (like 13k US), in which currency you have the money doesn't matter, similar to other countries...

Declaring >100k HKD out of Macau/HK seems straightforward enough, but how do you declare it when arriving at your home country?

Don’t they ask for documents that prove where these funds originated? Or your home country doesn’t ask that?

There is a counter at every airport to declare items. In bigger airports you usually have an exit, which is usually after baggage reclaim and in green that goes "nothing to declare" or something like that and another one that goes "items to declare" or something like that. Guess which one you should take. Layouts may vary. They will usually give you a form and there you have to state where the money comes from. Depending on whether they are satisfied with your answers, their overall work attitude and so forth they may or may not question you further. As usual with immigration, not looking, smelling or behaving like a hobo helps. Also note when you arrived the rules of your destination country apply which may be different from HK. Some countries do not allow the import of big amounts of money. Also in some 3W countries they may try to extract a bribe when they see big $$$, this happened to me in Manila already. Western 1W countries usually no problem.

I was wondering what were games like during the summer (when WSOP was running in Vegas), were there any good action since most regs leave to US? Maybe someone can tell whats the best time or at least what was the best time pre covid to come here?

You would think so, but AFAIK there was little to no impact, apparently there was not too much overlap with the peeps who went to the WSOP and the regs in Macau. Maybe at the highest stakes, dunno. Half a world away after all. The best time is/was supposedly around Chinese new year, nice weather there usually too, and not too much air pollution since nobody is working. But it is debatable with the waitlist issues and crazy hotel prices whether it really was much better all things combined.

Thanks for reply . I want to touch the waiting list issue. With stakes being relatively high and rake also high casinos have to be making profit from the games, so why can't they open more tables?
Is it some government restriction or some taxing issue that they don't do that?
Also do these waiting list extend 24/7 or for example if you came late at night (like 1am on a week day) you still gonna be 49th or something on the list?

The waiting lists will obviously be longer on weekends and holidays, weekdays not so bad but games also will be reggier also.

As for what time of year is good, there's really no good or bad time. WSOP time if anything games are worse cos macau is so hot and humid(90%+ humidity 24/7) in summer and tourists generally can find destinations with better weather. Personally I like Sep/Oct/Nov.... there's the golden week holidays for China in October, the macau grand prix in Nov, weather usually around 25C and sunny as opposed to too hot in summer or rainy in winter. And games are decent during this time as well. But you'll find others that prefer other times too.

FWWM, when you wrote crazy hotel prices around chinese new year, are we talking around 200 usd per night or more like 500 usd? Of course I'm talking about cheaper hotel rooms around Wynn (within 15-20min walking distance).
What do most people do when they come for 2weeks/month, are there any good renting options near major poker rooms?

You can get a room for 200 US or even less but it won't be at a nice hotel. Every year is a bit different. Booking early helps