I would argue that situation is different because of the promotion that pays cash. I once played in a room that offered the same max rake as other rooms and a promotion paying cash for 4/8 limit players, and even though the only thing attractive to nits was the cash promo, I thought it did significantly affect the games because tighter players were getting hours in for the promotion. I often played several hours longer because of the promotion. I've seen the same thing happen with freerolls from my limited experiences. Personally, I haven't seen lower rake have as much of an effect on the games.

Perhaps California would be different though because the rake is so high. By this I mean maybe the tighter players are so fed up with rake increases that they will flock to a place that offers lower rake, but I'm just speculating here.

my guess is many players won't even notice, at least for awhile.
there was no announcement made or notice posted. i admit i played for an hour before realizing what was happening. dealers are quietly taking a $1 chip from the pot on the river.

rakeback: at the bike, after 50 hours/month you get $2/hour. used to be $5/hour. and at $2/$3 games and above you get free food. this is a good perk - food and service at the bike are pretty good.

btw they changed the $80 game - blinds used to be $1/$2, now it's $1-$3 - 26BB max buy in. and the extra $1 on the river. i dunno how anyone plays that game.

It's just bingo for people who don't like getting ink on their hands.

Is it legal to increase the drop w/o posting/printing a notice on the gaming table?

It's stated in fine print on the rake card.

Hi,

I'm looking at getting back into poker and specifically to develop my live game in NL Holdem. I'm looking for soft, low-stakes NL games to build a bankroll and confidence with some good old fashioned grinding.

I'm new to LA...and I've heard of Commerce and the Bicycle Club...but haven't been yet.

Any recommendations on casions/games and times to go to for fish/donkey parties?

Thanks

these places are making huge amounts of money for their space because of the semi monopoly get get. but its true their costs keep going up.

what is sad is that the level of the games hasnt risen with inflation and the rake.

antitrust lawsuit obv!

This appears to be the definition of price fixing, which is illegal.

It's still a great deal compared to Australia and some other places. Inflation is a fact of life. The casino still makes way less off poker players than table games players.

not in california!

I've played at the bike for over 100 hours (small sample size) but I would rather see the bike get rid of free food for 2/3 and 3/5 players and instead reduce the drop.

For starters this would eliminate players who sit down, order food, sit out and leave. Normally I wouldn't care but since it's a fixed drop, playing short handed is -EV here.

Finally it's a fact that food costs have increased dramatically. I don't see how the bike is going to continue to allow free food without the drop not increasing.

This is kind of what I have been thinking...
Would love to hear someone with a legit legal background give an answer to this.
But, even if it was illegal, what do we do?? Get the DA to go after them, force the casinos to spend millions in legal fees, and even more in fines??
Then they either shut their doors, or raise rake more to recoup their losses.

Bad situation for the players all around.

Upper management Aaron from Casino A is golfing/having lunch/etc with upper management Barry from Casino B.

Aaron: We are going to start collecting $1 more on the River.

Barry: Really? How much more do you think you will take in?

Aaron: $YYY a day

Barry calls a meeting at Casino B and everybody agrees that this is a great revenue opportunity.

They don't have to agree to anything. Casino B knows that if they keep the rake the same, they will only gain maybe 0.000002% business from Casino A from people ticked off by the new rake. No brainer. Up the rake. Take the money.

When Chuck at Casino C hears about it, he tells his people to do the same thing.

ya I dont know enough about this type of law to know what needs to be proven, what is legal and what is not... I would imagine it would be very difficult find businesses in violation.

I'm in favor of eliminating eating all together.

If only it followed common sense.

Someone would show up and say hey can't do that.

Illegal you greedy !@#$ and then slap upper management in the face.

I really thought the LA midstake games had 10 years left where a grinder can make some money, but it's looking grim already. It's nice to see the bike building the hotel finally, but again looking like too little to late.

Very close to 0% chance that any LA casino steps out of line and starts to compete, that's just shooting themselves in the foot. Poker was pretty awesome for awhile at least.

I don't disagree with anything you said, especially playing shorthanded in a fixed drop game being -EV. But the Bike will never do this as they will simply lose too many players. I remember walking in too many times during daytime hours where it it weren't for those type of players they would hardly have a game.

How about a class action lawsuit?

The $2-$3 NL game at the Bike is the only low stakes game in town that will let you buy in for 100 BB's. Considering the rake in L.A. and their crazy max buy-ins, this is probably the only low stakes game you can even come close to beating. As with most places, play at night. During the day you'll encounter more nits who sit down, order a meal then sit out of every hand they can get away with.

Don't waste your time or bandwidth.
Unless they actually discussed this in advance, no law was broken. Simply charging the same price as your competitors, or matching an announced price change, is not price-fixing.
So unless someone could prove that they discussed this in advance, there's no crime provable and no case.

If your interested in the legal evidentiary issues you may want to take a look at this http://www.foster.com/pdf/M_Vaska_LawReview.pdf

No laws need to be broken to file a civil suit. It's easiest to win a civil suit if the defendant has been convicted of a crime, and easier if they've been arrested (whether they were convicted or not), but you can go ahead and file one no matter what.

Here's the rub: Unless you're a lawyer, don't expect to see any real money from a class action lawsuit. These things are meant to be punitive (damaging to the company being sued) not compensating (to the victims). If you've ever received a $5 check from AT&T or something, that was your 1/1,000,000 share of their multidecamillion dollar settlement, minus lawyers' fees.

There was a class action against EA sports a while ago, I got a $90 dollar check in the mail from 2 minutes of online paperwork. Pretty sweet. But, ya still losing overall...