Sorry for the late reply and thanks for your comments. Sounds like we are in the same position. I am basically rolled between the 1/1 and 1/2 games and trying to get to the 1/2 stage. Yeah the 10% is high but i have just experienced similar rake in Perth (Australia) and the games were definitely beatable even with a high rake. (Played about 70 hours). I am heading upto the Vic on Friday to play my first 1/1 session and see what happens. What bankroll to you believe is needed to play the 1/2's in London? Aggressive 30bb-50bb. I am wanting 75BB personally (£15,000). P.s I will check out them freerolls as well

This thread's weekly reminder than 70 hours (roughly 2k) hands is not even close to enough to know whether a game is beatable.

About 30-40% will be regs, about 20% will be half-decent to very good, about 15% will be wannabe pros and act the part, precisely zero will actually be pros (unless they're slumming it from higher stakes for a while - and even then they won't always adjust and often play badly).

OK, just some advice from an old-timer...

Anything can happen within a 70 hour time frame so - agreed, not a good yardstick. As to bankroll, how long is a piece of string? This has a lot to do with personal preference. Are you working? Full-time / Part-time? How much do you earn? How many hours can you put in per month? How much is your rent and other outgoings? How much are you buying in for? The list goes on. Also, you stated you're going for 75BB (I assume you mean BIs) but this calculates to taking a £200 buy-in to a table that allows £400 max. Are you ok with this?

Personally, I got myself a good steady job last September and been cruising the 1/1 games ever since. I'll play 1/2 at The Hippodrome when I hit the ~£10K mark which should happen around March/April and it’s good to know that a regular income will cancel out losses. I might go with a £300 buy-in at the beginning but I'm not sure. Some will say £10K is not enough while others will say it's too nitty but it's all down to what's right for the individual. It's always best to be as immune from pain as possible when that villain's two-outer hits on the river so it's always best to go with more of a bankroll rather than less. It's just common-sense bankroll management really.

As to the freerolls, these can be a love/hate thing. If you plan to play a lot for the month then you may feel duty-bound to force yourself to put the hours in at the tables to qualify. May as well play an extra 5 or 10 hours for a "free" £500 entry right? But this also means playing when not on your A-game or when you don't always want to... and sometimes losing a few hundred here and there in the process. Hardly "free" right? However, in saying that, even though I find them tedious, dull and luck-ridden I’ve a pretty good record in them (min-cashed The Vic one last Saturday for £659) so there you go. Just remember that those 90 hours per month can really drag on when the poker gods ain't smiling.

This sounds like an experience coming out of the US which is completely inaccurate for London. 2/5 doesn't run around the clock, so the deepest stacked 1/2 games will always have regs/pros. An average game will have at least a couple regs, but rarely any good ones. There are some good pros who play 1/2 regularly because it plays very deep a lot of the time.

does the vic have free parking?

Yes. Small, underground, often full.

ty

I'm not sure about the "pros who play 1/2 regularly" but anyone who plays 1/2 exclusively and calls themselves a "pro" is either deluded, just on a short-term heater, or is an out-an-out liar. They're probably just a tad arrogant as well. Bless 'em.

Are you saying it is impossible to make a living out of £1/2? Nobody is a "pro" at those stakes?

Thanks for the reply, might see you about in the Vic at some point. Yeah the £15k target i would then play 1/2 where the max buy in is £200 is there is a game like that. A bit of time before im there though. Just want to get my low stakes live play hours up. Turn my 70 hours into 500 live play so i can see what my winrate is a little bit more clearly. Just purchased Doug Polks Upswing Poker Lab today aswell, can not wait to get stuck into that. Is there anywhere to charge your phone at the Vic? Yeah £670 for a min cash freeroll is pretty sweet

I don't think so. Most clubs are £500 max, hippo has even deeper 1/2's.

I think he's saying that many people think they're a pro at these stakes, but the game is barely beatable in the long run, and probably not for a wage that would permit living in and around London, so those people are ignorant of this.

Agreed about lots of deluded people out there.

I used to live in London in several places while working minimum wage (£7-7.50/hr) jobs. Now if I could earn £15/hr by playing full time I could definitely live off that. And £15 doesn't sound unreasonable playing £1/2 and £1/2 deep.
I don't have enough hours logged to say yes, that is certainly achievable, but have a hard time believing that a decent player with good BRM, table selection, etc. couldn't do it.

But then again the reason why I am posting here is to find out about about true state of the game in London, so please feel free to disagree with me.

£15 p/h is pretty mammoth actually as you don't pay any tax on the gambling winnings. That's circa £6k p/a more than someone earning £15 p/h in desk job.

That being said, I think £15 p/h is totally unreasonable to make over a consistent period of time in those games. The best players can probably beat the games, maybe the absolute peak of the best can beat it for £15 p/h, but those are people that probably won't stay at that limit for long.

Another important factor is that people are humans and not econs so will make bad bankroll decisions. As such, when you do inevitably have a downswing you may not have enough in the tank not to go broke.

I haven't played live poker much at all in last year or so. In last couple of months I have discovered home game that plays twice a week £0.5/1. Now there is maybe 20-30 guys who regularly play in this game and I would class maayyybe 2-3 are somewhat solid, however the rest are real bad, despite using all the correct poker terms and such. At least half of these players play regularly in £1/2 and £1/1 games in Aspers mainly. Or so they claim.

Now seeing these players I am literally salivating at the thought of playing them at £1/2 with 100-200bb stacks. That's a sample from ONE local home game. Kinda makes me think that there are at least hundreds of people like that in and around London, who could be called bad regs.

On the other hand I certainly have to agree about people practising bad BRM, etc.

Appreciate Joe's opinions and would love to see some other players familiar with London poker scene voice their opinion on this matter.

Interesting discussion, I played in the London games for around a week over New Years', here are some of my observations, take it for what it is. I agree with sample size and all that. Only played the 1/2 and 1/3. Maybe observations are somewhat skewed because of holiday period and all that.

Empire: Only 1/2NL running every time (1-3 tables running, they have 5+ I think). Pretty juicy games, pretty deep like the other casinos also. Yes, a couple of regs, but no good ones. The floor looked like that Williamson guy from TV, not sure if that was him. Location not the best, in the basement somewhat removed from the gambling areas.

Hippo: Only played once, had 1/2 and 2/5 but limited space (4? tables). Nice location on the 4th? floor overlooking the gallery but pretty loud and cramped. The 2/5 had a long list, 1/2 like Empire (limited sample size)

Victoria: Many tables, this is apparently where all the serious players go. Had everything from 1/1 NL (lol) to 10/20 PLO. Only played the 1/3NL. Had a look at the 2/5 games, but they didn't look juicy. The 1/3 was fine. It had a couple of somewhat better regs than the 1/2, more 3betting, floating etc. but also a couple of huge whales.
Rake 5% up to 10 funny british everywhere. You always walk around with tons of notes cos they still haven't invented higher than 50s. You get some sealed foil for sets of 1k.
Overall I thought these games were easily beatable but I don't have the sample size to prove it obv. Overall the city looked pretty run down though, the streets, houses, the tube etc. and I wasn't even in a "bad" part.

Lol, agree with some places in London looking bit ****ty, also the Tube can be dirty nightmare....

Must have been over 40 players on the waiting list at The Vic on Friday night for both the 1/1 and 1/2. Had to wait 3 hours for a seat! Always check first kids.

That's not unusual for Friday nights (or at least it wasn't a year or two ago - I don't get there very often these days).

What time was that? Best time to get there on Fridays to get a seat without long wait?

Some sort of major MTT going on. Think it was part of the GUKPT. It happened before when they hold these big tournies. Had to wait 3 hours then as well. Won't be doing that again. I'd rather go drive to Aspers and play there than wait that long again for sure.

Ed: 'Twas from about 7pm.

Played £1/1 and £1/2 in Aspers tonight and although it's apparently quietest night of the week, they still had few tables going. £1/1 was playing with small stacks only so played some £1/2 but the table broke down.
Overall booked a nice winning session and both tables were softish.

Hey, i was there on Friday for an all nighter, did you play any 1/1? Might have played against you....haha

There are a couple of the pay charging units. £2 for an hour IIRC.