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Old 05-19-2012, 12:38 PM   #151
BADUU
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Played 12 hours last night, and the place was ridiculous.
When I started early in the day, was able to walk right in and sit at a game. By around 9PM, the line was down the escalator.
There were so many people in the Poker lobby, you needed a guide dog to get to the restroom and back to your table.

CURRENT PROBLEMS
(1)The rebuy situation is still terrible. People are constantly waiting for chips, and the games get slowed down or completely stopped.
There is no consistant rule either.
Apparently, you can't even give a stack of chips to the busted guy so he can play a hand while waiting. However, I saw it allowed by some dealers, and not by others.
It would be a simple fix by just putting a row of green chips in the dealer tray.

(2)Another problem is that the seats aren't filled in a timely manner. Also, the 3rd man walking rule isn't observed. We played 5 or 6 handed many times throughout the night. Witch is kinda crazy considering the line to get in.

(3)Yes, the cashier cage is very slow. However, I found it very easy to just sell my chips to someone waiting in line.

FUNNY
My table had a 10 minute arguement because some old guy wanted the 5 seat to move and "square up the table".
I guess he didn't understand we were playing 9 handed, and the five is centered on the dealer tray?
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:23 PM   #152
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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I am trying to figure that out. I put in 3 hours at 2/5 plo, 2 at 1/2 plo and 2 at 1/2 nl. But I play baccarat at $50-100 hand for about 45 min so who knows. My tier points went up 134 yesterday.

And to make it more confusing, I played until 2 am and I think the system might only count until midnight then update the next day. Mine said as of 5-18-12
I'm not positive, but I think you're confusing "Tier Credits" and "Reward Credits". Tier Credits earn @17/hour at the poker tables, they vary for other table games and slots (i.e, your Baccarat playing probably added more than that/hour).
Tier Credits are also what you 'use' (but don't lose) to get the free parking voucher.

Reward Credits apparently earn during poker @ $0.25 (25cents) / hour. These are redeemed for 'things', food drinks, cool shirts etc etc etc.

I hope I'm not wrong here, and just adding to the confusion, but I'm 99% sure.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:27 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by BADUU View Post
Played 12 hours last night, and the place was ridiculous.
When I started early in the day, was able to walk right in and sit at a game. By around 9PM, the line was down the escalator.
There were so many people in the Poker lobby, you needed a guide dog to get to the restroom and back to your table.

CURRENT PROBLEMS
(1)The rebuy situation is still terrible. People are constantly waiting for chips, and the games get slowed down or completely stopped.
There is no consistant rule either.
Apparently, you can't even give a stack of chips to the busted guy so he can play a hand while waiting. However, I saw it allowed by some dealers, and not by others.
It would be a simple fix by just putting a row of green chips in the dealer tray.

(2)Another problem is that the seats aren't filled in a timely manner. Also, the 3rd man walking rule isn't observed. We played 5 or 6 handed many times throughout the night. Witch is kinda crazy considering the line to get in.

(3)Yes, the cashier cage is very slow. However, I found it very easy to just sell my chips to someone waiting in line.

FUNNY
My table had a 10 minute arguement because some old guy wanted the 5 seat to move and "square up the table".
I guess he didn't understand we were playing 9 handed, and the five is centered on the dealer tray?
Until this issue is resolved....I am carrying 2k in blacks in my pocket and selling them at the table when there is a delay caused by not getting a chip runner right away. Only accepting $100s though. Def speeds up rebuys.


Yes filling seats is def a slow task.

I have been buying chips and cashing out at the cage at bottom of escalotor. Much faster.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:46 PM   #154
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

i would hope mgmt is reading this and sees the players view here......

1 comps need to go to $1

2 rake needs to drop $1....

other issues clear up over time.....

my friends in detriot greektown and motorcity gives free food.....we need hard rock to open full racino asap for competetion
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:46 PM   #155
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

So 11k to diamond means around 648 poker hours.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:14 PM   #156
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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Originally Posted by Huaj View Post
I'm not positive, but I think you're confusing "Tier Credits" and "Reward Credits". Tier Credits earn @17/hour at the poker tables, they vary for other table games and slots (i.e, your Baccarat playing probably added more than that/hour).
Tier Credits are also what you 'use' (but don't lose) to get the free parking voucher.

Reward Credits apparently earn during poker @ $0.25 (25cents) / hour. These are redeemed for 'things', food drinks, cool shirts etc etc etc.

I hope I'm not wrong here, and just adding to the confusion, but I'm 99% sure.
I understand the difference. What is confusing is "comp". Harrahs doesnt "comp" you anything. They give you Reward Credits which are used like comps.

Venetian gives comps in the form of dollars, same with B and Wynn and Aria.

But what I am asking is people keep talking about "comps" at $.25/hour. Are they stating that we get 25 Reward Credits an hour (25 Reward Credits=$0.25). Or are they stating that we get an actual comp in the term of DOLLARS and that is $0.25/hour? That is my confusion.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:25 PM   #157
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

the 'comps' are reward credits. I don't know how it shows up on your account, but it equals out to $0.25/hour.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:44 PM   #158
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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Originally Posted by cap217 View Post
I am trying to figure that out. I put in 3 hours at 2/5 plo, 2 at 1/2 plo and 2 at 1/2 nl. But I play baccarat at $50-100 hand for about 45 min so who knows. My tier points went up 134 yesterday.

And to make it more confusing, I played until 2 am and I think the system might only count until midnight then update the next day. Mine said as of 5-18-12
This is a source of confusion, but most "casino days" at Caesars properties do NOT end at midnight, but usually run from either 5am-5am or 6am-6am instead. With this is mind, you probably earned all those tier points in one day. People at the Total Rewards desk should know the exact property rules though.

Did you give them your card for the baccarat table too? If you logged in 7 hours of poker, then it's possible they cut your daily total at midnight since poker alone should have gave you 119 Tier, and Baccarat at even $50/hand for 45 minutes should have gave you more than 15 tier points, at least i would hope. But table play formulas are confusing and secretive, and Caesars is well-known to screw over table game players very well. They treat slot players the best since they typically make them the most money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cap217 View Post
I understand the difference. What is confusing is "comp". Harrahs doesnt "comp" you anything. They give you Reward Credits which are used like comps.

Venetian gives comps in the form of dollars, same with B and Wynn and Aria.

But what I am asking is people keep talking about "comps" at $.25/hour. Are they stating that we get 25 Reward Credits an hour (25 Reward Credits=$0.25). Or are they stating that we get an actual comp in the term of DOLLARS and that is $0.25/hour? That is my confusion.
They are doing the conversion in their head mainly. You are getting 25 Reward Credits per hour playing there. Vegas, Tunica, AC, and some other places pays 100 Reward Credits per hour. New Orleans gives absolutely nothing. Each reward credit is worth 1 cent of Caesars' stuff, so that's why everyone is saying they are getting $0.25/hr. However, if you would want to turn it into something like slot play, it's only worth half value.

17 Tier Credits/hr is for status purposes only; they hold no value. 4000 Tier Credits a year makes you a platimum member and 11000 Tier Credits makes you a diamond member.
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:46 PM   #159
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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Originally Posted by tringlomane View Post
This is a source of confusion, but most "casino days" at Caesars properties do NOT end at midnight, but usually run from either 5am-5am or 6am-6am instead. With this is mind, you probably earned all those tier points in one day. People at the Total Rewards desk should know the exact property rules though.

Did you give them your card for the baccarat table too? If you logged in 7 hours of poker, then it's possible they cut your daily total at midnight since poker alone should have gave you 119 Tier, and Baccarat at even $50/hand for 45 minutes should have gave you more than 15 tier points, at least i would hope. But table play formulas are confusing and secretive, and Caesars is well-known to screw over table game players very well. They treat slot players the best since they typically make them the most money.



They are doing the conversion in their head mainly. You are getting 25 Reward Credits per hour playing there. Vegas, Tunica, AC, and some other places pays 100 Reward Credits per hour. New Orleans gives absolutely nothing. Each reward credit is worth 1 cent of Caesars' stuff, so that's why everyone is saying they are getting $0.25/hr. However, if you would want to turn it into something like slot play, it's only worth half value.

17 Tier Credits/hr is for status purposes only; they hold no value. 4000 Tier Credits a year makes you a platimum member and 11000 Tier Credits makes you a diamond member.

I understand all of this. I was a diamond member for a year, then platinum after I didnt give enough play. I think I am still platinum....

But their comp system is based off of Average Daily Theoretical (ADT). I know table games are very time dependent as far as your ADT goes. They consider your average bet, the time of play, and the number of rolls per hour (I don't know if that is a set number or if they also rate the speed of play at the table). I believe they take the numbers and multiply:

"avg bet" x "rolls/deals per hour" x hours of play x HA to get to ADT ($50 avg bet x 50 rolls x 4 x 2% HA = $200 ADT).
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:55 PM   #160
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

another thing. This betting line needs to be established. I know the rule is that the betting line is considered your cards. But thats not an exact science.

I didnt encounter a problem until I went to a 1/2nl table late Friday night. A few regs and some new faces and drinking involved so imagine a normal friday night poker 1/2 game I guess. I bet $35 on the the flop and player in seat 4 cuts out $35 in front of his cards, then grabs a stack and pushes it all in one forward motion.

Now I know he was clearly trying to raise but he cut out $35 then went back and made 1 motion. The dealer said that he made one motion. I was not arguing the one motion at all. I was stating that he cut out a call, then added a stack and moved forward.

Anyways, the floor comes over. Everyone explains and I am not trying to win (I am folding my hand here), but I wanted it to be clear what he did. The player and the dealer all stated he made one forward motion and that was their only claim. But you cant cut out chips in front of your cards, then grab more, then push them all forward.

Someone asked what the betting line was and the floor said your cards. They said that your cards can be placed in the middle of the table as long as they were capped and that was your betting line.

This needs some work. I didnt notice any issues at 2/5+ games but for games like 1/2 and 3/6 I can see this being a big problem.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:08 PM   #161
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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another thing. This betting line needs to be established. I know the rule is that the betting line is considered your cards. But thats not an exact science.

I didnt encounter a problem until I went to a 1/2nl table late Friday night. A few regs and some new faces and drinking involved so imagine a normal friday night poker 1/2 game I guess. I bet $35 on the the flop and player in seat 4 cuts out $35 in front of his cards, then grabs a stack and pushes it all in one forward motion.

Now I know he was clearly trying to raise but he cut out $35 then went back and made 1 motion. The dealer said that he made one motion. I was not arguing the one motion at all. I was stating that he cut out a call, then added a stack and moved forward.

Anyways, the floor comes over. Everyone explains and I am not trying to win (I am folding my hand here), but I wanted it to be clear what he did. The player and the dealer all stated he made one forward motion and that was their only claim. But you cant cut out chips in front of your cards, then grab more, then push them all forward.

Someone asked what the betting line was and the floor said your cards. They said that your cards can be placed in the middle of the table as long as they were capped and that was your betting line.

This needs some work. I didnt notice any issues at 2/5+ games but for games like 1/2 and 3/6 I can see this being a big problem.
Had the same problem, but different ruling. A guy put chips out for call (in front of his cards but not pushed forward) and said "raise" as he went back to his chip stack to add chips.

Another player said this was a call. Floor ruled it was just a call. Guy got pissed and left.

I know it's not as "classy" but I don't know (otherwise) why places don't just have a bet line. Was sad to see fish leave over this.

If there is no betting line they should, at least, urge dealers to clarify the rule as early as possible in smaller bet situations, or give one warning. The guy was clueless and his intent was always to raise. I'd be fine with a warning (even though it would work against me there)
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:28 PM   #162
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How are the $2/$5 and $5/$10 games tonight?

First week crazy? Or just regular?
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:05 PM   #163
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Looking on Bravo now. It says the Omaha BBJ is $250...lol Did the floor not get the memo about secondary and tertiary BBJs?
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:44 PM   #164
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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Looking on Bravo now. It says the Omaha BBJ is $250...lol Did the floor not get the memo about secondary and tertiary BBJs?
yeah the bbj really is 250. lol.

but yeah the room has some quirks but it is really great actually for mid stakes. 4 - 5 2/5 NL games 2 5/10 games and 2 or plo game in the 2/5 - 5/10 range.

right now enjoying the place way more than pitt or detroit. most likely just because its nice having a good room nearby.

once the dealers and staff are more on point (dealers are quite decent for a new place but far from perfect) this will likely be one of the best poker rooms in the country for the first year anyway. gradually casual players will quit and gamblers will lose too much in the pits than cleveland will probably be like detroit, a decent poker market.

but i really think will be one of the best places in the country to play for awhile unless you want to play super high stakes than it just does not seem the economy really can sustain massive games.

number 1 criticism is there is zero food available in the casino from 2AM to 7AM. with the amount of drunk gamblers that are around in the time its really dumb to not having something open. it will probably hurt the fun of being in the casino. just keep one of the food court places open so if someone is really hungry they can enjoy themselves and not have a reason to leave.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:28 AM   #165
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Crowdedness was great for 5/10, had a couple guys who wanted to play 2/5 sit down because it was faster.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #166
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

tier credit is confusing.....played ultimate texas hold em and dumped 340 in under an hour .....waited 5 minutes to close out and my tier credits was only 6......son card got parking so no problem......

sunday breakfest buffett was nice......Robert is doing a nice job down there....s/o to pastry chef Faye....thank you
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:21 PM   #167
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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tier credit is confusing.....played ultimate texas hold em and dumped 340 in under an hour .....waited 5 minutes to close out and my tier credits was only 6......son card got parking so no problem......

sunday breakfest buffett was nice......Robert is doing a nice job down there....s/o to pastry chef Faye....thank you
Tier credits and comps in general are NOT based on how much you bet or lose. It varies from each casino company but Harrahs is based on Average Daily Tehoretical... Amount bet x house advantage x rolls/spins/hands an hour. Then Harrahs does more for daily calculations but that is the basic formula.

So craps:

Pass line bets are equal to 1.3% house edge. They assume 30-35 rolls an hour. Lets just say I bet $10 pass line only for 4 hours.

10 x .013= $.13 a roll is what I am worth to the casino. So .13x35 (rolls)=$4.55 per hour. Now multiply that by length of play. 4.55x4 (hours)=18.20.

You are worth $18.20 to the casino playing $10 pass line bets for 4 hours a day. Now they comp you based off a % of that. We dont know those calculations though.

So say you went and played 1 roll at craps for $1,000 and lost. You would say, at least comp me a dinner, but they wont. You are only worth $13 for that 1 bet.

Its a numbers game and they have it perfected. They do not care if you win or lose because the casino always wins. No matter what they know their EV based off you play.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:21 AM   #168
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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tier credit is confusing.....played ultimate texas hold em and dumped 340 in under an hour .....waited 5 minutes to close out and my tier credits was only 6......son card got parking so no problem......

sunday breakfest buffett was nice......Robert is doing a nice job down there....s/o to pastry chef Faye....thank you
For UTH, the theoretical house edge is not very high, but it is very strategy dependent. Optimal strategy (which is not totally known in a playable form) costs you 2.185% of an ante bet. For a table with a $5 ante and 40 hands an hour, you will wager $200 in antes, and if you play optimally you'll lose only $4.37 an hour, which would be less than the poker tables. This is possibly why you got only got 6 tier credits for the time you played. The variance (or swings) in this game are MORE than $1/$2 no-limit hold'em! Although in reality, they should consider the effective house edge at least 5% of an ante because 95% or more players play UTH incorrectly because they are mostly too chicken**** to shove 4x preflop or push 2x on the flop when they pair almost ANYTHING. An effective strategy may be found below. This is a great game for the house, but has high variance that allows even bad players to win occasionally, so I am not surprised it is the one of the most popular "Trademarked Games". Mississippi Stud is also a heavy house edge game that is gaining popularity due to high variance.

http://discountgambling.net/ultimate-texas-holdem/
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:51 AM   #169
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

And 5/10 HORSE running, atm. Very jealous I'm not close by.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:52 AM   #170
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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And 5/10 HORSE running, atm. Very jealous I'm not close by.
This game looked really soft towards the end of the night before it broke around midnight. There was a guy completing/raising in Razz with a Q up to start because he thought it was Stud High.

There was 10/25 PLO running which is what brought me into the casino for the first time since it opened. It was full with a short waiting list for the entire time I was there, and looks like it broke not too long after I left at about 2:30a, as it wasn't on Bravo anymore when I got home.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:58 AM   #171
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This game looked really soft towards the end of the night before it broke around midnight. There was a guy completing/raising in Razz with a Q up to start because he thought it was Stud High.

There was 10/25 PLO running which is what brought me into the casino for the first time since it opened. It was full with a short waiting list for the entire time I was there, and looks like it broke not too long after I left at about 2:30a, as it wasn't on Bravo anymore when I got home.
What were people buying in to the 10/25 PLO for? How was the play?
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:38 AM   #172
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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What were people buying in to the 10/25 PLO for? How was the play?
Guy who moved to that game from my table was saying it was 2k min buy with no max, and possibly trying to get the min to 2500. When I left around 7 I don't know if it was started yet. Yea that 5-10 Horse looked like a fun game. What's the typical buy in for that?
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:11 AM   #173
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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Ohios first bad beat has been hit! Omaha hand quad queens loses to a flopped royal flush! Jackpot was 10k. Congrats Triv!
Do Omaha and Hold 'Em have separate BBJs?
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:14 AM   #174
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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Do Omaha and Hold 'Em have separate BBJs?
Yes. Hold em is at 19k, and omaha down to 250. All of your questions can be answered at bravopoker.com
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:20 AM   #175
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Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

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What were people buying in to the 10/25 PLO for? How was the play?
I didn't see the game start up, but it looked like the shortest person had $2k-$3k in front of them, so the below quote seems accurate. Rumor is that one person at the table bought in for $20k. It was a little hard for me to see everybody's stacks, but it looked like there may have been close to $100k on the table, with one person having approximately $30k in front of them, and a couple others $15k deep.

There was one glaring weak spot at the table, and 1 (maybe 2?) other players who were average/below average, and everybody else seemed really solid to me. Take my opinion for what it's worth though, I'm pretty awful. I'm assuming at least a few of the players in the game are members here, not sure how willing they'll be to share any info on the game though. I was planning on playing in it, despite knowing I'd (most likely) be the 7th best player there. How often am I really going to get a chance to sit in a game like that?

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Guy who moved to that game from my table was saying it was 2k min buy with no max, and possibly trying to get the min to 2500. When I left around 7 I don't know if it was started yet. Yea that 5-10 Horse looked like a fun game. What's the typical buy in for that?
Bravo had the list at 14-17 people up until around 6pm, and it had the list above 10 people from like 2pm and I was wondering why the game never got started. I think I checked it around 7 and it showed it running with 6 on the waiting list.

Nobody was really deep at the 5-10 HORSE game, and it was 6-handed by the time I got there. I didn't ask the min/max, but average stack was probably $400-$500. It ran pretty much all day, so people may have filtered in and out, but the ending lineup would have been a great table to be at. I only saw the Razz/Stud 8 levels. By the time I realized I wasn't getting a PLO seat, the game broke and I ended up railing a few friends/walking around the casino etc until I left.
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