This is very frustrating when it comes to new rooms in new cities. Where I play (Seneca Niagara in WNY), the management staff, for the most part, is spot-on with staffing and competency when it comes to running a room. When new rooms open up in these bigger cities, they need to grab the bull by the horns from the get go. First impressions mean a lot, and everything I'm hearing about Cleveland isn't very good...

That's funny that whoever makes the schedule forgot about the sunday tournament. He should be fired. From what i've heard from a dealer the guy who is temporarily in charge of the room just comes up once a week and does not really care too much about room issues.

The Sunday tournament should be the most important day of the month just because they are going to have more people from out of town and they should be somewhat interested in making a good impression.

From what people have said the whole casino was designed where table games and slots would be the highest priority and poker secondary. That is why almost all the dealers can deal tables games or poker and why poker dealers don't keep their own tips. So if the table games are short dealers they can move down from poker and deal there.

It sucks that Cleveland got basically the only room in America set up this way. In general it does not effect the games too much on a daily basis but there would obviously be slightly more players/action with a better managed room.

Its also not really the floor people who are horrible although there is one who makes it a priority to start arguments with players and a few who are rules nazis. But most of the problems are on the management level above them.

I really don't understand why the casino wouldn't want dealers to keep their own tips. "Hey, If I deal 12 hands per down or 20 you mean I'll pretty much make the same amount of money because I'm splitting it with 700 dealers? Yep I'm dealing 12 hands" Compared to a dealer keeping their own and wanting to get better and faster....All that means is the casino makes more money(more hands more rake), dealers get better which means better customer service(happy customers), which leads to more tips(Happy employees). Yeah sure who would want that......SMH

I think it really comes down to what was said before; poker here, despite what the players think, is a secondary concern to upper management in CET, Harrah's , the Shoe etc ad infinitum.

They want to maximize their exposure and churn out as many possible outcomes where they are favored to the umpteenth degree. I have seen far too many GOOD poker dealers out on the casino floor dealing BJ or Monte Carlo Mississippi Holdem Stud or whatever marketing name won out for those silly table games.

The splitting of the tips is really at the crux of what is holding this place back from being one of the better rooms I've played. There is no immediate incentive to become a better, more proficient dealer than if you are told nightly what the customer base thinks of you by the amount of tokes you cash in at the end of the night.

It seems to be that they will ransack the poker room for any able bodied dealers when the lower 2 floor are crowded. Completely ignoring the fact they have empty poker tables and lists 30+ deep, because well they can.

People tip alot less in Cleveland at poker than ive seen in other places. Obviously because of the pooled tips. The problem is all dealers are payed less because of it and therefore some good ones quit. In addition, the room has a huge promotions budget (more bad beat money goes to promotions than the actual bad beat)and they have not had a promotion in two months. All in all the room needs a manager who is there everyday.

I don't mean to say the room is horrible. The place sort of runs itself and there are a ton of 1-2 and 2-5 players so you can still always find an ok game here. It could just be quite a bit better.

Its run bad and always was. It is getting worse w management but the room runs itself in a way. What bothers me is that in 2 years when the casino money has dried up, the poker players will still be here (i hope). Revenues are dropping and people are losing money.

But what really sucks.... we were at the 2/5 plo game on thursday and needed a fill. Dealer counted out $900 and chip runner has to now write it down. But for this amount, the floor had to come over and verify the amount and sign off on it before she could take the money! So we just sat and waited for almost 5 min until a floor guy walked over. Then after the fill came back, another sign off by the chip runner and the floor person.

Nice.

C'mon! You can't tell me that people in Cleveland tip
less b/c the tips are pooled. Poker players are cheap (generally)
when it comes to tipping. I can tell you when I'm in a new room I never ask if they keep or pool their tips before I decide how much to tip.

As for all the complaints that poker is the step-child in the casino --
of course it is. It doesn't make as much money. Put yourself in their
shoes: one part of your business generates much more revenue and profit for you than another part. Which part of your business are you going to emphasize
and promote?

Floor has to sign off on all fills now. Can't wait to see how much this slows the game down when the room is packed

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It already has slowed it down, was only there a few hours last night and the floors were noticeably overwhelmed with all the call outs from all the tables. What a hassle, what genius thought of this?

That's horrendous. Because there were so many problems with the fills before... wtf

Maxed out at 28 tables on a Saturday night. Again.

Stupidest. Poop. Ever.

Look....I think we all understand poker rooms do not directly bring in the highest revenues for any casino. However, a smart manager would realize poker rooms indirectly bring in tons of revenue if marketed properly. Even if casino goer's don't sit down....billboards of the bad beat on I90, lower tournament buy in's to entice new players, and promotions such as high hand/free buffet all create buzz and bring people to the casino.

I have never seen the World Series of Craps on TV....Poker is a draw for casino's and if it did not bring people in, it would not exist at all in any casino. It's all about marketing and management.

The real problem is that there is no competition close by. If Cleveland had another casino or two, the Shoe would need to get there act together in the poker room or players would just go to the better run poker room next door.

Yes. I can honestly say that I do this. $500 pot might get $2 if they pool instead of $5. The first couple times here in Cincy playing I heard "Do you guys keep your own tips here?" more than a couple times. There is a reason they are asking.

Short trip report. (My first post on 2+2...thought I had an account forever ago...couldn't retrieve it!)

Went to the Horseshoe Casino yesterday, all the way from WNY! (Cavs vs Pacers game, so why not turn it into a day of poker beforehand?)

Was reading the forum beforehand, and wasn't sure what to expect. Put my name on the list for 1-2 before going back downstairs to grab a quick lunch. Seemed as though they were pretty good about starting up new 1-2 games frequently, once the list justified it. No complaints there. Tables and chairs were ok. 9-handed, so you had room to maneuver, which was good. The dealers I encountered were decent, considering they don't keep their own tips. (Which is a crime, IMO...)

What really made me cringe: the rake. 10%, up to $6, +1 for the bad beat. Ouch! This is as bad as the casinos in Niagara Falls, Canada, near where I'm from. I refuse to play there because of it, and probably won't go out of my way to revisit Cleveland because of it. Turning Stone, I believe, is a flat $5, which includes promotions, and Seneca Niagara is $4, +1 for the bad beat. Would much rather play there, if possible...

Overall, not a bad casino by any means. Looked nice on all 3 floors I visited. The buffet was average, at best. Connected directly to the mall, which in turn is connected right to the basketball and baseball venues. Will certainly visit again if I'm going to a sporting event.

And horseshoe does it again. New rule, chip runners are no longer able to get player's chips. Only the floor has that authority to handle chips. The chip runners basically just seat players now. You better stock up when you get your first buyin cause you all know how brutally slow the cage can be. The little leprechaun floor guy (i think you know who im talking about) when asked by a dealer about what the players should do when they need chips said and i quote "good thing for them the cage is right there". I wanted to get up and hit him. I do think the casino's hands are tied a little on it but damn, 10 months in and it keeps getting worse and worse.

I waited 2 hours today starting at 12pm for another 2/5 table to open. When I arrived there was 10 names on the list. After 90 minutes there was 20 names on the list without a table being opened (there was a big list for 1/2 NLHE and PLO). This has been a reoccurring problem for well over a week now. There's either a shortage of dealers- or whoever does the scheduling is incompetent.

Now that chip-runners are non-existent the games have gotten much slower and the players are becoming tilted because there is no way to quickly reload after you bust.

The majority of the regular players are grumbling about how terrible the shoe is. When we voice our concerns to the floor we are usually given some passive aggressive response. One floor guy is consistently rude and confrontational to players and has told regulars numerous times to leave if they don't like how the casino is run. Great customer service, lol. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, this room pretty much runs itself. There's no real room manager to voice our concerns to and the player base is becoming increasingly frustrated.

To sum it up:
- shortage of dealers and/or scheduling errors = big wait lists
- rude/ non-helpful floor people
- no chip runners
- cash-outs @ cage STILL take forever
- dealers STILL don't keep own tips
- terrible non-creative poker promotions (lol splash pot)
- ridiculous cell-phone policy
- almost zero promoting of larger games or the Sunday tournament
- 5/10+ tables often not even LISTED on open tables screen
- new method of filling dealer treys is time consuming and nonsensical

Most of these problems could be solved if they simply brought in a manager with some experience who could have the power to bring about some massive changes.

Several months ago a dealer here told me a few room managers from other casinos came to the shoe for awhile to evaluate how the room was being run. Their conclusion was that it's the worst run room they've ever seen. Since then the room has only gotten worse. If there was another casino across the street the shoe's poker room would be empty.

Apparently they are going to be running evening tournaments soon. Dealer mentioned this and asked if we heard about them. Not sure how we are supposed to hear about them when there is no literature, nothing on Bravo, nothing on website, nothing on facebook, and nothing on twitter.

I'm off today and normally would head up for sure, but being the NCAA tournament starts today and it will be like pulling teeth to get even one game on, think I will just go to a bar.

is this the only casino in America with no chip runners?

I think there are quite a few rooms without chiprunners. Some places just keep more money in the rack or small rooms have the floor run checks.

But it seems the casino overreacts everytime there is a small problem. There must have been some sort of incident with a fill or a chip run. A sensible solution would be to just fire that person. There is always going to be a bit of cheating and stealing at casinos but considering its so easy to get caught its just not going to be a problem.

Just from what Ive seen they don't have a full time manager so when a problem occurs they just take dramatic steps to try and solve the problem so they don't have to deal with it. But its usually at the expense of customer service.

They just need to have a manager come in who emphasizes the customer experience. People who come to the casino just want to have fun for the most part. Most people are not grinders or rules nits. I know they made a number of regs angry enough to not play at all or play less.

When you go to a casino you really should not notice the floor or dealers unless they go out of their way to help. Its the exact opposite here, you wonder from day to day what they will screw up next.

No

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They are in the process of hiring dealers, floor people and a room manager. The ads are up on the internet job boards. Check indeed.com if anyone's interested or just want to see what the requirements/duties are.

Bravo says there's a 0-0NL game going? Is this typo or for real? How do you play 0-0 I've never heard of such a spread? With antes?

They actually tell you guys that if you dont like it then leave?

No, it shouldn't have shown up. I was told it's a placeholder on bravo for dealers on dead spreads when they swipe in. They keep it at 0-0 NL then update it to whatever game ends up being spread at the table.