Thanks

More awesomeness from the shoe - witnessed all of this in the past 72 hours:

1. Had a 5/10 Mixed interest list with 14 people on it. Did a head count and 11 were present and willing to play. Floor then opted not to open game.

2. The 1/2 PLO main game loses a player and needs one from the feeder game. At the same time, three people get up (and take their chips) from the feeder game to avoid having to switch to the main game. Floor then moves one player from the main game to the feeder game to balance the tables.

3. The 2/5 feeder game gets down to 5 players on a weekend evening... Floor lets those 5 players know there's a big 1/3 wait list and if the table doesn't fill up, they will either go full rake for 5 players or just kill it for 1/3. Twenty minutes later the table has 7, they are back at full rake anyway, and it still gets shut down to open a new 1/3 game.

Not correct above:

1. They tried to get the mixed game off but only four people showed and two of them did not want to play short.
2. Two players at the feeder (myself and another player) got up to go eat and we took our chips because the game was already short and we did not want to short the table. We had discussed picking up vs. getting boxes openly a 1/2 hour before we left and waited for players to fill so that the game did not break. We also were talking about going to shoot craps after eating with another one of the players at the feeder table. No one picked up to avoid the first table...

I suspect for #1 you are talking about Fri night, I am talking about Weds.

For #2 again it sounds like a different, but somewhat similar, incident.

In another great, player friendly move, the room has decided that a Royal Flush using both hole cards is no longer worthy of a $250 bonus. The bonus was which originally set at $500, was lowered to $250 awhile back.

Those "frequent" royal bonus Payouts must of been really cutting into that $230k promotional fund. I guess the room decided that one player having both the royal payout and the hourly high hand at onetime ($350) was too much of a reward.

In over 10 years of live poker, I've been dealt 2 royals.

Any feedback on the new tournament structure? I see antes have been added back in. (Good deal).

Are they still doing the $10 dealer add-on? I don't see that on Bravo.

On Bravo, I see a total prize pool of $8,625 and 75 players for the Sunday noon tournament today. This equates to $115 per player added to the prize pool with the house keeping $25. If you do the $10 dealer add-on, this is a 23.3% rake. 17.9% rake not counting dealer add-on.

why do you care if you are only going to hit one ever 5 years?

High hand is a completely awful promotion the way it is now anyway. $100/hour isn't going to boost room attendance (which is the goal of promos, right?). $40k BBJ's aren't going to do it either. I'm not saying the new manager is bad at all, but why does it feel like every manager has no clue what promotions are supposed to accomplish?

Because casino professionals are in charge of the poker room rather than poker professionals and they refuse to accept that there is a difference.

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The use of the promo money does not look like it can last. They're using $3,900/day for it taking in roughly 4k/day. The bad beat hits every two weeks and they plan on giving away 126 seats to the harley championship ($126k). Unless they fill more tables they could be dangerously close to running out. Keep a close eye on the funds, if it drops below 150k they could be in trouble.

This isn't entirely true. A lot of idiots stay longer, play non-peak hours, and maybe do other things I'm not thinking of that benefit the room. They aren't new players, but it still benefits the room.

I play a ton and I don't know anyone that stays longer because of $100 high hand that runs 24/7 anyway. Maybe the occasional player who was gonna leave but hit the high hand that hour, but that's only one person every once in awhile for <1 hour.

Who's driving to the casino because they can win $100? You can win $100 betting the minimum at a blackjack table. Hell, $100 preflop pots at 1/3 games aren't even uncommon.

Scrap the stupid promos. Funnel most of the money into the BBJ. Give the rest away in $1k tournament vouchers. Filling that tournament up would do wonders for that room.

Are they not running any true sats to the 1k? Just those vouchers for playing their dailys?

exactly

More awesomeness from the floor...

Sat down at the 2/5 main game last week on a weeknight as the 9th player. Within 20 minutes we had enough on the list to start a feeder game - props that they actually opened up a 2/5 feeder that quickly.

Not long after, someone gets knocked out of the main table and leaves. Soon a new player is sat in that seat. New player is in 3 or 4 hands and wins a big one - a 3-way all in hand where he triples up his stack. Within a hand of that taking place, the floor comes over to indicate they made a mistake and sent him to the main game when he should have been seated in the feeder game. They took him out of the main game with the triple up in chips and put him back into the feeder game (under the protest of most players at the table speaking up). The floor said they had to be 'fair' and put him at the feeder where he should have been in the first place. The protesters at the table thought 'fair' would mean to leave him in the game to get a chance at winning some of his stack back. Fell on deaf ears, player was never seen at the main table again that night.

/rant

Probably the correct ruling because it prevents people from sneaking into one game or the other.

This floor decision forces you to decide which is worse and decide accordingly: violating the must move order and allowing the player to continue playing in the main game ahead of players in the feeder due to the multi-way all-in that was won, or moving the player back to the feeder game which takes chips off of the main game.

With a normal ordered, systematic must move I would argue that the player should be moved back to the feeder game.

However, 1.) Cleveland's must move is not ordered and systematic, and in fact, it is entirely possible for the newest player at the table to be the one to move to the main game if all the players in the feeder game do not want to move; and 2.) The player being seated in the main game was a house error (it was not a shot taken by a player). Therefore, in this instance I would actually argue that the player should not be moved out of the "main" game. This is a very specific exception for me due to some very weird house rules and a house error.

If you aren't going to implement a true must move system where the player at the feeder the longest MUST MOVE then it's just 2 2/5 games and the new player should go to the shortest table.

Actually the only reason there are must move games at places is to ensure that the people who have been there the longest get to keep playing. The problem with the Cleveland system is that the people on the second game can basically pick what game they want to be in. The side benefit of having a must move under normal rules is the main game will at least be deeper even if the players are better.

Don't really care what rules they use. But the only reason there are must move games at all is to ensure that the game that has been running the longest keeps going. No need for must move otherwise.

So in summary no they should not fill the games evenly.

Can to explain or discuss what, if any type of overlay exists for this tournament? Or has the Horseshoe done away with all guarantees?

Yes. This. Especially CET.
Poker players are nothing more than a liability to the casino. Especially skilled and educated players who go right to the parking lot (vs the roulette wheel) on the way out.

Definitely not true. Poker players pay huge amount of rake per hour. Find a business where you could charge people 13 dollars an hour and only need one dealer and you could make a fortune.

Also, poker players buy food and drinks and do occasionally play some table games or slots.

Basically take someone who only plays poker it's way way better than nothing.

Based on the fact that you enjoy making a career out of arguing ITT, I'll let you believe you are correct (although, you are not) and will put the matter to rest.

I came to this thread to discuss the tournament schedule/ payouts at the Horseshoe, seeing as how I just returned to Cleveland from a 10 month stint in Vegas. If anyone can provide helpful, useful information in lieu of argumentation drivel, please PM me. TIA.

Actually it's pretty common knowledge that poker is generally an afterthought for most casinos. $13/hr rake is absurdly low compared to the hourly losses from slot/table players. Why do you think poker players get very little credits/comps?

Each table in the room that is running generates 130 dollars an hour in rake it's an absurdly good business. But yeah not enough to give free hotel rooms.

Just saying don't buy into the notion that poker players don't make the casino lots of money. Not complaining about the level of comps. Just saying if you do the math the poker room is way more profitable than almost every business outside of the casino.