How much money has Soto cost this poker room during his watch? 1M....10M.

I don't really have much a horse in this race, but let's just say it was $1500 an average day .. that's a penny when it comes to perks and promos.

I think poker Players persevere pretty good despite the circumstances of the room .. but typically at a reduced volume, and that's where the bottom line gets hurt.

So management can take the attitude that 'the Players will show up anyway', but it's the volume of play that is affected. GL

My guesstimate is prolly closer to the 10 million...if memory serves correct all the dealers were dying laughing when we didnt meet the guarantees for the cpc one year when it ran against another big event that was pretty funny thought someone would be on the chopping block but guess not

Well, I'll be heading to the Shoe sometime next week. Can anyone tell me what the wait times are like? Thanks. Oh, and are all the old dealers gone?

Don't know. Nobody will take "poker room manager" job at this point, because "poker operations" has been dismantled and is under table games management - you know, Let It Ride, Three Card poker, Blackjack, etc. All dealers must be able to deal both pit and poker, because they all must deal in the pit on the weekends. Actually, seems like Horseshoe Hammond MAY have found a buyer - so that's eight months left under current ownership - get as much money as possible! Still have that Holdem Bad Beat at 30K, should be $50K.

It's just really sad for everyone involved (players, staff, etc). Before I moved to Chicago in 2013 all I heard in Columbus, OH was "Have you played at the 'shoe?"; "The action and the games are so good there!"; "The best place hands down to play in the Midwest!", etc., etc., etc.

This has been truly gutted. I look at locations like Baltimore and Philly that have similar player pools, and those places are THRIVING. Look at MGM, Parx, Maryland Live, etc.

What a shame. It's hard to bring a lot of people back to the pool once they have left. Especially with sports betting. Oh well, I know I'm preaching to the choir.

I was there last night (Thursday) playing 1-2 for about 6 hours, and here are my thoughts . . . by the way I'm happy they have poker back, 9 handed and no dividers, but with masks is as close to normal as we're gonna get for a few more months, however, you should be aware of some of the "peculiarities" of what you're heading into.

The shoe is not my normal room, but I have been there a bunch of times over the years, so you regs might be able to add more to, or even correct, my observations

1) The dealers are almost all BRAND new, like seriously brand new. One of our dealers didnt know what a "chop" was when it folded around. Another one was clearly thinking hard with every thing he did. He was nervous. When an experienced dealer sat in, you noticed it instantly. I felt bad for how new they were and some were definitely worried about messing up. Everyone at our table was really cool about it and nice to them though. In fact, everyone I met there last night was really great to hang around, dealers included. The atmosphere for the NFL draft and to be playing together was great.

2) Play was super slow. Easily the fewest hands per hour I've ever seen. Everytime a new dealer sat down, they'd count the cash, and stare at the chip box, touching them for literally 3+ minutes, our chip box was off for some reason and three or four dealers in a row called the floor, and I couldnt figure out why it kept happening, didnt they correct it the first time? They never made any massive mistakes, but it made me appreciate an experienced dealer much more than I used to.

3) The floor sucked at getting people to the tables. This was just ridiculous. We had open seats for 10 minutes or more quite often. The lists were 20 deep, there was absolutely no reason they didnt send someone new to the empty seats right away. A few times we had two open seats for 10 minutes or longer. The room only had 8 tables going, what would have happened if the room was at its normal size? Either the floor sucked or something else was going on. I'm not gonna call em out by name since I dont know the reason, I will just say I've never had that happen before at any room I was at: Long lists and long waits to fill seats. Anyone got the reason for this? Maybe I'm totally wrong about this, but it was extremely unusual.

4) Two experienced dealers said the shoe is having dealer classes going on right now and they wont open for weekend play until those people are ready to deal. This is why it's just Mon to Thurs. Just not enough dealers. I found this odd since it seemed many of the dealers in the room really had no idea what they were doing and were not shy about telling us. They meant well, they did their best, but it was just weird to think are these the "post dealer school" dealers? If not, why wait for the dealer school dealers to be "ready"

5) The place still reeks to the point it's almost unbearable walking around, the minute you walk in it hits you. How they dont have a better way of dealing with that I'll never understand. Get some carpet shampooers and fill the water tank with vinegar and it'll do wonders. Fortunately inside the Venue there's no stench, but even two steps outside, where you have to wait, it's brutal. It's a good half block or so away and up a 2.5 story escalator from anyone in the regular part of the casino and yet you can still barely breathe up there. This casino is easily the smelliest public place I have ever been in my entire life. I cant even think of any place that competes with it for that title.

6) No drinks, no food, no nothing in the Venue. Not even a water bottle. It's a long walk to get some water, and you'll probably miss at least one big blind to do it. Seems like they should at least have some water bottles in there. I found this to be silly.


Thought I'd share.

Horseshoe brought back poker almost two weeks ago and yours is the first deep dive review of the playing situation. Many thanks. And to tell the truth it makes me wonder if I shouldn't wait a few more weeks before heading back. Though I wonder if that will make much of a difference? Frankly, long lists in a smelly atmosphere with only eight tables manned by brand new dealers doesn't sound all the inviting. Again it begs the question if the Shoe is really all that serious about poker anymore. I fear we may already know the answer. Take care, all.

You have a medical problem. Olfactory test recommended! There is nothing of the sort you describe (in Horseshoe Hammond) and never has been.
BTW. We know QAnon has infested the internet.

You shouldn't be able to smell all that if you wear a quality mask.

While what you say is probably true, it's also true that no business should allow their place to reek that bad to begin with.

I assume that since the vast majority of people in there smoke, they dont notice it, and complaints, if any are made, come from the minority of people who do not. Simple observation shows that almost everybody there is smoking.

I guess corporate just sees no need to do something about it because of this. They arent gonna spend money on something only a small number of customers will appreciate. So, it's my problem, not theirs. I get that.

I'll also admit that no one hates the smell of smoke more than I do, but it's also true that no place I have ever entered has smelled even remotely that bad.

I'll bet the average smoker will say, "it's not that bad" while the average non-smoker will say it's pretty awful. However, at the shoe the former outnumber the latter by at least 3 to 1.

We found the Shoe's PR team.

If I have an olfactory problem, it only seems to present itself at your casino. Your post is embarrassing.

Horseshoe was my main poker room in those long ago pre-Covid days, so I believe I speak from experience. By far the Shoe was dirtiest of area casinos. I never understood why the bathroom stalls looked as if they hadn't been cleaned in a week, and I seriously doubt if the carpet ever saw a shampooer. As far as smoke goes, that really depended on the time of day. When I played in the morning or afternoon during the week it wasn't too bad. However, nighttime or the weekend it was like walking through the London fog to get to the poker room. Casinos really should go smokeless. Provide an outdoor area or room for smokers. That's what airports do. IMO it wouldn't hurt the bottom line in the least.

What's the reason for them not spreading 5/10+?

Primary reason is it's less popular than PLO and 2-5. Couldn't guarantee a full table.

I've never noticed an abnormal smell at the Shoe save for the standard casino cigarette smoke/cigars (and occasional people at the tables).

They say if you can't identify a smell within the first 30 minutes of sitting down at the table, it's coming from you.

Went back again last night, same problems, if not worse

1) Why does it take 10 minutes or more to fill a seat when the list is over 20 deep? If you say, "Well, they get sent the text and they take awhile to get to the room" Really? ALL of them are standing over 10 minutes away from the room? No one is standing just outside the room ever? This is not a "new dealer" problem, this is a "floor" problem and they have no excuse, they are not new.

2) Why does the floor walk around all the time asking if a seat is open? The dealers all say, "they know the seat is open, it's here on the bravo system"? The entire night you hear, "hey do you have an open seat on X?" and we are all laughing saying, "uh, ya, you should have noticed that when you came a few moments ago to double check the tray, which leads me to the most annoying thing of the night . . .

3) My table literally had 6 dealers in a row sit down, count the cash, stare at and seductively stroke all the chips in the tray for about 4 minutes, look up and say, "FLOOR!" since the "count" or whatever was off either over or under by $10. The entire table started laughing everytime it happened after the third time. I'm not exaggerating even a little bit. Then the floor comes over, does the exact same thing, verifies the count is wrong, then walks away, only to return when the next dealer sat down. WTF? How is it ALWAYS wrong? If we got in 20 hands an hour I'd be shocked. One guy was like, "it's $5 short? here, here's a red chip, can we play now?"

4) One bit of great news, one dealer said that masks will likely be optional on June 1st.

5) One funny moment happened when a player finally came to fill an empty seat didnt notice we had two open, he first sat in the 2 seat, then instantly gets up and says "Sorry, I didnt see the 5 was open, I'll move there" and someone said, "dont worry, the floor took 15 minutes to see that open seat, it only took you 1 minute, so you're doing great"

How this place can not fill an empty seat in less than 10 minutes is beyond me. New dealers being nervous and slow, and literally saying, "I learned what 'check in the dark' means last week, I get that now" bothers me so much less than the floor having no clue when seats open and then not being able to fill them in under 10 minutes. (And yes, I started timing it on my phone since I was bored with all the downtime from the new dealer finding out the tray was off by $5.) And there's THREE dudes at the front desk. What are they doing?

I swear as soon as there is an alternative room open west of the shoe, I'll probably never return but once a year to take in that stench the minute you walk into the building.

And yet, you know I'm going back next week until another option is available.

You sound like the ultimate nit. Give them a bit of break while they adjust.

Not sure why people head to the shoe only to wait in line for super long times in the first place - but if you do, what's another 10 mins?

Playing short handed is better than a full table anyways.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Nit or not, BSumner is the only one posting about conditions at Horseshoe. And frankly it doesn't sound too appealing right now. So much so that I've decided to wait awhile more before heading back. I'd like to hear from a few more folks who've ventured over to Shoe to get their opinions. And there seems to be silence on what Hard Rock might offer in a few weeks. Take care all.

The reason it takes a while to fill a seat is the first person they call sometimes doesn't show up. They have to give each person on the list a few minutes before they get to the next name. Or the brush is busy. Or they didn't hear the seat was open.

1) Yes, it takes time to fill a seat. I like the way Motor City Casino used to do it .. call a name, wait about 15 seconds and move on to the next name. You don't lose your spot on the list, but you miss out on the seat! With possible CV restrictions in place, most rooms don't allow you to wait in the room anymore, so it will take much longer to fill seats in 'today's' world. Players may be downstairs in the casino and need to 'cash out' down there before getting all the way up to the poker room .. not unreasonable IMO.

2) The Floor's are doing a bit of double work, but that may be since they know that they have newer Dealers (or they are new themselves) and the Bravo may not be updated as soon as a Player sits down. Some Dealers may not even know how to 'guest' a seat if a Player doesn't have a card .. or is having one made.

3) This is a Dealer training issue. The outgoing Dealer is supposed to tell the incoming Dealer that the tray is short .. and in reality the outgoing Dealer shouldn't even leave the table until the incoming Dealer 'releases' them via a tray count. I can tell you it is very cumbersome to just 'simply' add chips to a tray. Communication with surveillance is usually required to log in the issue.

Thanks for the updates, but it really just sounds like a 'new' room going through new room things that will either be worked out via experience or ultimately drive away the ranks (if other options are open). GL

Thank you very much, I've been waiting two weeks for a post like this.

One nitty thing: IIUC floor and brush are two separate jobs, but you only mention floor folks. The first job is kind of supervisory, and the second is who gets players seated and moved around. It sounds like floor people are doing both jobs for now? (That would be standard in a small room.)

New dealers, new floor, and new layout means things aren't going to run smoothly for a bit, but that's okay. Tragic, considering the room's former status and potential, but okay. As long as the players are chill, it'll be fine after a few months. I look forward to finally coming back on weekends.

And BTW, I don't suppose anyone has heard if Hard Rock is going to have a poker room at all and/or drag over any of the Majestic staff? I know they said they would have one in the initial announcement, but AFAIK it's been silence since then.

So have things gotten any better? Trying to decide to make the long drive over online poker.

Any word on the room opening up for weekends?

No word on weekends yet.

Was there Tuesday night, it's not better. 15 minutes or longer for open seats to fill the entire night long, no matter how long the list is. The floor runs around checking for open seats every so often even though every dealer says "it's here on Bravo, they know the seats are open" Floor repeatedly runs around and says, "dealers update your bravos!" So which is it? Is the bravo broken or is the floor incompetent?

It makes no sense. One guy a few posts ago said it's a new room, and that's BS, the walls changed, nothing else, same floor staff, and not every single guy can possibly be 15 minutes away from the room when called. The floor just can not figure out when seats are open or fill them in a remotely timely manner.

Tuesday we had seats open for so long, guys were literally just standing up and taking seats at neighboring tables, no questions asked. One time a player was just walking by our table and the dealer said, "we have an open seat!" to him. Never been to a room where you didnt have to go thru the floor for a table change. We had guys switching from 1-2 to 2-5 and vice-versa whenever they wanted even though the list was 20 names deep.

And waiting for each new dealer to recount the cash and stare at the chips to find out the count is always wrong is just annoying. When they realize the count is off, they then count all the cash again, count all the chips again, and then they call the floor and the floor verifies it's a chip short and replaces it. Every dealer spends a few minutes going thru this routine, the experienced dealers get the cards out quicker, but the new ones . . . it's a whole ceremony.

I didnt want to say this so as to start a war, but none of this happens at GVC, which is the Shoe's main competitor. No chip and cash counting ceremony, no jumping from tables to tables as you wish, no 15 minute waits on open seats. They ran a tight ship.

I have no idea how this room has the rep as the best room in the midwest.

At least one thing the shoe has over GVC is that the dealers and floor all agree that the bet line is meaningless. You can carry your entire stack past the line and drop in one chip and they're cool with it. Some guy at our table asked each dealer that question and then the floor and they all agreed. The line is meaningless.

These problems have been going on for weeks now, I have no reason to believe it will change since these shouldnt be problems to begin with. But with no other option, your only choice is to stay home and not play.