Hi folks, went to CT last night and stayed at the Inn at Charleston, which is on property but a pretty big walk (other side of the racetrack). A few random data points regarding last night's trip, take them for what they are worth.

By bro and I didn't want to actually do all that standing in line so we waited until it cleared out and put our names on the 1-2 and 3-6 lists at 8:15. Then we went and bet a bunch of races, saw the ones there (the poker room is literally right next to the racetrack, they have horse betting machines in the room, and even one live 'payout' person there).

We ended up getting seated at the same 3-6 table around 11:30, about 15 min after hte races ended so it worked out good. During that time I saw some guy ask 'what games do you have here', he was told it was 3 hr wait, he asked about blackjack (?), then tried to slip the pencil $10 to get put on top of the list This guy was really clueless. The kid just laughed a little and said he couldn't accept it...

2 dealers were quick - both named [name removed] actually. [name removed] was OK but he was distracted because he had a tray come up short (or was it over?) and had to sign a variance slip - the floor (a girl) kept interrupting him and not letting him run his game, he said it was some previous dealer.... awkward. [name removed] was .... um.... still learning - she tried to deliver a pot to 2 pair when someone else had a flush, she dealt people in when they were sitting out, etc.

The Inn is new and nice, not too expensive, just had the free breakfast 2 hrs ago - and all for under $100. The room is big (like a Hilton), and the shuttle free. Highly recommended.

The golf at Locust Hill sucked, but that's probably outside the scope of this thread....

The Sundance Grill has great food but takes too long to get it.

The blackjack mins were $50 and 100, the craps mins were $50, the roulette mins were $25 and 50, the LIR mins were $15 (a bargain!), the 3-card and 4-card poker mins were $25 I think. That big wheel of fortune game where you bet on the dollar bills was $10.

The bumper sticker: if you don't want to stand in line all that time, our system worked OK; put your name on after the tables get called, go kill 3 hrs time and you're good to go. At 11:30 right before we got called there were 90+ people on the 1-2 list, 40 on the $2-5 and 10-20 lists, and 80 on the 3-6 list. In spurts, around 1:30am or so, they seemed to call a bunch of people, almost like they opened up a new table.

Again, to all the folks who contributed to this thread, thanks so much.

Also, sorry I forgot

When getting their name added, with a probable 2 hr wait, someone asked if he could be paged (texted). The kid working the pencil said that he sometimes worked, sometimes didn't but asked to get the guy's cell phone # to test it.

He did and the page hit what looked like an iPhone about 1 min later. The kid said that he'd call his name and if it didn't come up he'd then page him through that system.

I'd also be interested in getting the manager's contact info to let him know that time rake is great because it helps to create action in the game and there's a much smaller possibility of dealers taking too much for the rake.

Are you sure that that was incorrect? In some time rake games I've played, including 5/5 PLO @ the WSOP, dealers have to deal in any player who has paid time and their blinds until the next time a blind reaches that player. CTR&S might have the same policy.

Perhaps, but this was 3-6, pot raked not time. Also this was a guy who had his buddies waiting for him over at the 10-20 game and were ragging on him to go, his seat had been called, even the floor came over and said, "You have been requested to get your a** over to the 10-20 game" (yes, she actually said that). He said he was sitting out the next hand so he could go, he was racking his chips... and she dealt him anyway.

Oh well, she'll learn.

IMO - I have to disagree
I perfer pot rake games and don't think adding a TIME RAKE is a hugh factor to force action. To me there's always action at the table. I'm mostly a 1/2 player and just think $6 for 30 min is a lil high.

Esp when the dealers are slow we get 1 round every 30 min. With that said it's almost $10 for every around of play, $6 for 30 min + $2 for Big Blind + 1 Small Blind + $1 if you get to limp with small blind = $10 every 30 min


As I see it, it's really $48 every 4 hours. I think we agree that 4 hours is ez to play in poker. Meaning i lose close to $50 for about half the time I usally ave when I sit down at a poker table (Ave 8 hours a day). I play them more than Min wage to play a game

Ah, that makes more sense now. Thanks for the clarification.

I apologize if your first language is not English, but I'm having a very hard time understanding what you're trying to say with this post, especially the first paragraph. Can you rephrase? It sounds like you're saying that you prefer a pot-raked game, but I can't really understand your reasoning. If that's the case, we can just agree to disagree.

Edited - Please reread up my second post.

I agree, I was typing to fast and was too worked up over this subject. Honestly, I'm happy with poker coming to this area but the time rake is the only think that doesn't sit right with me with this poker room. Everything else I feel like it's just start up hiccups.

I'm not "shilling" for anything. I'm trying to understand why, if there are better options, anyone would want to go to a place, stand in line, with little to do, wait another hour two or three and pay a ridiculus rake. As a person that can read a discussion board, let me remind you that there are a lot of posts on 2 plus 2 from people that don't like the rake structure. You did see those, right? And I certainly don't like it, but as I will surely play there ONE DAY when they change or get settled AND THEY WILL. They'll change it because eventually people won't come to play 3-6 limit or 1-2 at those rates. But, as you say, I don't have to go. DP is a better place to play right now (because of the rake), barring what the drive time is. Simple fact. Do you work at Charlestown?

Hey, I'm all for a bunch of rooms. I travel a lot, like to play near where I stay and I'm happy they opened. And have played often enough at the other other three WV rooms except Charleston, which I only played once. But, I don't think WV officials are really treating me well with the tax, rake, slot percentage structure (I only waste money in slots to waste time waiting to play poker). I go to poker rooms for two reasons. I really like to play (entertainment), but I'd rather come out with more money than I went in with. So, I always pay attention to rake structures. I know where they are better than others. And AC, Vegas and DP are better than any stucture in NY, WV, Harrington DE, or CT. I'm waiting to see what the rooms in PA do, but I expect them to be 5.00 max. Foxwood used to grab time at 5.00 which is high as I've ever played time. But, they changed to pot rakes as Charelstown will BECAUSE low limit players don't like to pay time. If I go card dead, which happens to me though maybe not you, I end up losing a lot more money than my card dead hands would cost me in a raked pot. Hence, I don't like it. Not, if I'm on a rush, I pay less in a time rake, assuming 15 hands per down. But, it sounds like Charlestown is dropping about 10 hands per down or 20 per hour. Cost of rake then is 12.00 devided by 20 = .60 per hand played. It's like always being on a blind.

All I'm asking is why go, stand in those lines, wait for everything when you can drive another hour from DC/NOVA area and avoid it.

If I'm shilling for DP. I'm also Shilling for Vegas and AC. But, they're not as close as DP.

Can you buy in at the tables or do you have to get chips at the cage.

if they have 200 hundred people on a waiting list to play i doubt they feel pressure to reduce the rake.

Do you realize that $12/hr is a much better deal than $7 (6+1) a hand. It isn't really close. Here, lets do the math...

$6*2*9 = $7*x, where x= hands per hour.

x=108/7 = about 15.4,

So, if they are getting 15 or less hands/hour pot rake takes less money off the table, and if they are getting more than 15 hands/hour time charge is taking less money off the table. And time charge can really open up a game because your calling odds are no squished by the rake.

And sure, the above estimate doesn't take into account the fact that some pots don't get to $60, and a tighter player will win a little less pots than average, and there is some equity in the promo dollar dropped. None of that stuff can even come close to evening out the huge difference in money taken off the table.

And talking about about becoming "set in there ways", well right now the room and dealers are going through the learning curve, and are not getting that many hands/hour out. But pretty soon they will surely get up to industry standard 30+ hands/hour, making their time charge about half price vs their rake drop. We want them to get set in this way, very much.

Why do people think that the 'big games' are almost always time charge? I can't believe people ITT, basically whining and insisting that they should be charged more to play. Unless you own Penn National you are begging to be raped.

On the question of where to play right now, I have to agree with Layemdown.
From Westminster it is 3hr to AC, 1 1/2hr to DP, 45min to CT.
If I drive 45 min each way and wait 2-3hr to play, and end up only playing 5-6 hours, then a little longer drive for the time being makes sense to me.
Now in a couple of weeks/months, once they get things fully up and running, then the logic will likely change. At that point I could see playing at CT because it is more local, but I would still make 1-2 trips a month to AC.

They still grab a buck for the BBJ even collecting time I think. So, it's not the difference of 12.00 per hour and 7.00 max per hand. It's 6.00 max per hand. If you do the math your way, you have to back out the BBJ 1.00 hand drop which happens in the time rake anyway.

Can we start an official "time vs rake" thread for all of this discussion? it's more of a general topic, not something directly relating to Charles Town. If we were discussing it with their management, that would be one thing. Going back and forth with each other, cluttering this thread with your opinion of what's right, is pointless.

Again I'm talking about 1/2NL time rake. I think the point is that it's money out of my poket vs money off the table. I think we have enough players on the wait to add more money on the table. 30 hands an hour, I don't think they're going to be at that level for a while. Your calculations are base of assumptions that we will get 30 hands an hour. I rather them take from the winner pot vs a stack that's getting cold cards.

What about when you run hot and win 4 pots during a down and only paid $6 for those 4 pots? If you are going to base the complaint on the worst case scenario you have to look at the best case scenario as well. Which is why looking at the total amount of money coming off the table is the best way to look at it. Unless the table and/or dealer is very slow, you almost always come out ahead with a time charge instead of a rake.

this doesn't even make sense

I'm here at CT right now, waiting to get my name on the list for the session that starts at 3. At 1:30 there are about 20 in line.

Line is about 40 at 1:45

When I'm winning it's not a big deal to pay rake. I would pay $20 an hour if i was winning. My point is if i'm sitting there and not getting playable cards I don't want to be charged.

If you don't embrace the long run this discussion is pointless. So I will stop.

From Missledog: "So, if they are getting 15 or less hands/hour pot rake takes less money off the table, and if they are getting more than 15 hands/hour time charge is taking less money off the table. And time charge can really open up a game because your calling odds are no squished by the rake."

I meant, I rather have them rake come out of the pot rather than my own pocket/wallet when I'm not winning hands or even playing any hands.

Your prayers have been answered. Sort of:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27.../#post20121113

I tried to copy/paste the last few posts on this topic from this thread over to the new thread with limited success.

My apologies to anyone whose comments I butchered, or any confusion I may have caused.


--klez

what is the point in trying to use logic?

Nothing is taken from the pot on the time rake (no bbj). And as of now I am averaging 12-13 hands an hour over the 20 hours I've played so far. Theoretically the tine rake should speed up action. But that has not been the case at any table I've been at.