Very disappointing.

A $7 rake plus a jackpot drop is absurd. I live equal drive times from Horseshoe Hammond, Poto, and now Harrahs Joliet. I previously would not play at Poto because of the rake, (they recently lowered it) and I will not play in Joliet. I now sometimes do give Poto my business since they lowered the rake. Stiffing the dealers is just wrong, and I can not see how this can be productive. I was planning on playing in Joliet on May 20th while my wife plays in an invitational tourney there, but I think I will pass now. If the property wants my business, they will have to lower their rake to the levels of the competition. If all management wants out of this new poker room is to be a clone of the other horrible Illinios casino poker rooms, that is what it will be.

BTW, I also hate jackpot drops. I don't play the lottery either.

They arent going to give them a raise because we dont tip pots over $60. Its just a message...the dealers will complain, and maybe the rake might drop,,,,maybe not, but at least the voice will be out there. I think its a better idea than NOT playing there at all....if they want tips on big pots, then get them to lower the rake.

But remember, its not like you are going to be skipping on the tips all the time.

They'll get the point that the house is screwing all involved.

I also dont understand the idea of instead of stiffing the dealers, to not play there at all....arent you then stiffing the dealers our of any tips from you? Heck, maybe even make it on any pot that is intermediate, since those are the ones with the biggest affect....now you arent stiffing too often, and there is a voice that the room knows we are gonna keep a piece of our money in a different way.

I was hoping the rake here would be lower as I would drive there as opposed to Hollywood, but since they are comparable then it really isn't worth it for me to head there. If I'm going to make the drive I'm going to the Shoe. IL gaming laws suck which doesn't leave us a lot of options unfortunately.

Via la Empress!

Caesars Entertainment (Harrah's) taking a "whuppin" in Tunica, from mother nature. All their joints CLOSED. Re: Tunica Flood thread.

Playing, but not tipping, is the worst way to "send a message" about the rake - and truth be told, I'm sure a majority of the people who would not tip "to send a message" are just stingy nits who won't tip anyway.

You want to send a message? Don't play there at all! Don't give the ROOM business, as opposed to stiffing the dealers but still giving the room the profits they want. What's empress' rake? If it's less, well, it's also a horribly run room, so that's the trade-off - smaller rake, but more incompetence. Horseshoe Hammond, a Harrah's property, has $5+1, and I always thought that was bad. It's not THAT far away from Joliet - drive over to there!

Not tipping the dealers would only reduce the tip IF:
a) Dealers complain to management and demand lower rake so they can be tipped better.
b) Management agrees that lowering the rake would lead to more tips (not neccesarily true).
c) Management CARES that the dealers aren't getting enough tips (also debatable, they may say find another job or move to another area of the casino, we've got plenty of people wanting to deal here even if they're less skilled).
d) Management doesn't just raise the dealer's base salary instead, to counter-act the no-tips.

B, C and D are all HIGHLY questionable. And when push comes to shove, the poker room cares about its own bottom line more than anything else. Not tipping the dealers to send a message to the room is no different than not tipping a waiter because the food was too expensive - and that's just moronic.

Don't like the rake? I agree, $7+1 is absurd. Don't give the place business until they fix it. But if you show up, tip the dealers. Come on.

FTS, Emp is 6+1.

Still better than $7+1 - but of course, from everything I read about Emp, the complete lack of any sort of customer service or and level of competency kind of ruins the joint.

The point still remains - not tipping to "send a message" is not only horribly unfair to the dealers, it's not even an efficient way IF it actually would send a message (although it's highly probable the message would never get across) - it would take a gross amount of time from "no tipping dealers" to get to "room lowers rake".

Just protest the room the way any normal american customer voices his opinion - with his overall business. Don't like the place - don't go there. That'll get the message across.

All not tipping does is show someone to be a stingy miserly nit - that's fine if that's who you are, but man up and actually admit that's what you are, as opposed to hiding behind "sending a message".

The only way the not-tipping-the-dealers thing could possibly work is if you actually say out-loud, so that everyone can hear you, why you're not tipping.

Simply not tipping won't accomplish the goal, but if a big pot is shipped your way, and you say out loud so everyone can hear, "Sorry Sam, I'd love to get you on this one, but the exorbitant rake here is killing me. Maybe next time." Let them know why you're not tipping instead of just plain not tipping.

Sending a message with actions and words combined is probably the best idea. I don't know if this would change anything, but I just thought I'd throw this out there after reading some of this thread. I still don't think this would actually change anything, but I know that nothing would change with just not tipping by itself.

why kind of food do they offer? And have any games other than 1/3 3/5 NLHE run? Any LHE, PLO, mix?

They had lists for 5/10 Limit and 10/20 Limit. Don't know if it ran, but the 5/10 list was about 10 people.

Please people, do not play at this room. We should all flood over to Hollywood and just make sure the tables stay packed there. Honestly just go a week or two of this place being a ghost town and I guarantee the rake will drop. Speaking for everyone in the Chicago Suburbs, we need a real poker room in this town and cannot stand for a $7+1 rake. It is absolutely beyond ridiculous.

Honestly, how much farther is it for Horseshoe? $5+1, and it's still the best room in the Midwest.

If nothing else, temporarily staying away would get the rake down to $6+1.

I'd also write letters to their executives, pointing out that the closest rival is $6+1, and their own sister company X minutes away in Hammond is $5+1. And if you do go to the room, make sure to tell the floormen that you still plan to frequent the other rooms more often because of the rake.

When they're losing customers, that's when they'll move the rake.

Remember, "absurd" rakes are relative - if every casino in the area was $8+1, then being $7+1 would be a steal. The fact that it's $7+1 is bad only because the other competition is all lower. That's why they can be convinced to lower it, I would think - they are pricing themselves out of the market.

Just my 2 cents. But I play at the 'Shoe, but was definitely interested in checking this place out, until I found out about the $7+1.

Guys, that plan is never going to work. Anytime I walk into a casino/poker room more than 85% of the players don't even know about twoplustwo and the small percentage that do might not even read this thread. We don't have a large enough audience where implementing this coy ploy is going to be successful. It's only going to hurt the working people and that's not fair, we shouldn't hurt the working people because of corporation regulations, ever. Be direct, go to management and complain--the old fashioned way. If they don't listen the best way to counteract is to go to a different poker room. Not continue to pay the rake at the same room anyway and stiff the dealers, hoping that will get the message through.

i just read page 7 and 8 just now. looks like i just plagiarized lol

God can't wait to see what the juice will be on the tourneys.

Page 7 & 8, your doing it wrong.

Ya everyone here should post on their FB page about the absurd rake, I am going to play there Friday and make sure to tell floor I won't be back until it is changed. Talk about stupid, they simply had to match Hollywood and they would have taken all there business. I will remain at shoe/star until then.

I am doing the same thing this weekend. I want to try it out there once just play there but I also am going to tell the manager I will not be back until rake is reduced.

ok one dealer mistake because I thought it was interesting. We were playing 6 handed and asked for a reduced rake. The dealer first did not reply then we got the floor to tell him after he raked a couple hands too high. So then we had a reduced rake. Soon after the table filled back up to 10 and he continued the reduced rake. Then, the next dealer comes in and the previous dealer told him that the rake was reduced so the new dealer dealt to our full table for 20 minutes at the same reduced rake until the floor guy came and whispered to him normal rake. ha ha.

They're brand new, so i wouldn't fault them on not being 100% on the ball in the reduce/full rake methods.

you guys are getting a$ s raped hard with that rake! unbelievable how poker players continually will get bent over and do nothing about it, that room shoulda been boycotted since day 1!

Yes the dealers are green, but continue to make HUGE mistakes (At one point I said fold then folded my Aces face up, she burns then exposes the river saying he has a straight..I started to laugh followed by me telling her I already folded.....Quick question: on the River players are 3-ways, the sb bets out 75, cutoff folds, button thinks for about 2 min then turns his cards both face over, the dealer reaches for his cards and the player pulls his hand towards him saying hes not folding, the player continues to talk to the player making the bet before making a call....Is it legal to show both of your cards in this situation? I spoke to the pit boss tonight that seemed to have no clear idea....he first tells me the hand is dead when cards are exposed by the button..then comes to the table to find out the situation and says oh well if he called the bet that's fine you never told me that...I respond so you can expose your cards to gather information on your opponent, followed by his response please make sure you call the bet before showing your cards.

Most rooms allow one player to reveal their hand in a heads-up situation to get a read on an opponent, but it's not unheard of for a room to have a rule that an intentionally exposed hand shall be declared dead.

In other words, joliet could choose to have either rule - but what matters is that they choose one and enforce it as such.

Curious...what did they give for a reduced rake...$5?? :-P