Zetack... just got an update. We did have server hardware failure earlier in the week. Redundant servers so no problem. Players probably never noticed.

That did mess up some databases that are being rebuilt as we speak. 90% complete. Should be all clear as of tonight.

If anyone notices any more hand delays, starting Monday AM please advice.

Thanks again Zetack

Lou

hey,

if there are any asheville poker players in here that feel like getting some beer, or doing some gambling or going to home games, give me a PM.

later,

foxfox1

Reading through this thread as I'm now a mid-South resident. I think you'd do well at under the $5k price point. Any higher and people might balk. Depends on how expensive the tables are to mass-produce, I guess.

I am just guessing but I would think the tables would cost well over 5K, even mass produced.
I did some "rough" and conservative calculations and have determined that for every 10K, for the cost of the table, it would make enough rake to pay for itself in 9-10 months, if you played two nights/week for 6 hrs each. This was calculated by saying the average rake is $3/hand at 25 hands/hr and assuming that the PokerPro table will be 33% more efficient.

Lou,
Any advancement on the "home market"?

OFF TOPIC... but great questions...

Think of Home version of PokerPro more like an alternative to a high-end pool table in your home. Which would you rather have?

Price point will be way way above $5,000, which will of course shrink its potential market. But that market is plenty large for us to take our currently developed technology and monetize it in the home market.

Nothing substantive to report on this yet, other than we know the market is there, we are still primarly focused on getting our Casino and Amusement businesses on track, and as soon as that is done, look out Mr. High End Pool Table Manufacturer... there's gonna be a new competitor for your customers' discretionary spending dollars

Lou

Lou, I didn't take note of the particular times the delays happened. Usually lasted about one hand. The floor told us it was happening about once every four hours, but it didn't appear to be that regular to me.

I played again Moday for twelve hours, happened again twice.

I thought you must've identified the problem as the floor informed us that the poker room would be closed Wednesday from 6 am to 8 am for maintenance. Not so?

Folks keep asking about how the games are during the week so I thought I'd post my trip report for this Monday.

I got there about 4 on Monday afternoon. Three 1/2 tables running, no 3/6 or 2/5. A couple of open seats on the three tables so there was immediate seating. The good news is that we pretty much played with full tables the entire night.

One of the three tables broke about 7pm, but another third table started up again about 8:30 after the 1/2 list hit nine people. A fourth table got started around 11pm.

For those that like limit, the 3/6 got started around 8 and ran until about 2 am.

2/5 Never got started.

When I left at 4 am, there were still two tables of 1/2 running, although there were some empty seats developing so I wouldn't be surprised if it went to one table shortly therafter.

So, bottom line, at least for this particular Monday: Plenty of 1/2 action basically around the clock with short lists since they can open up new tables when the lists get long. 3/6 ran, but not around the clock, and no 2/5.

As far as the action went, the tables were not fantastic most of the time, but generally pretty good, and actually better for much of the time than some of my Friday sessions.

I got moved to a table in the early AM with a guy who was bragging about how high his percentage of seeing flops was (about 96 %). At one point he repported seeing 73 of 76 flops. Obviously he was calling pretty much any preflop raise which was nice, although his post flop skills were decent enough that he managed to go for quite a while before being busted (by me, luckily enough!) Also he sort of spurred another player into trying to boost his own average (this second guy only got it up to about 75% of flops seen) so some decently juicy play.

My overall impression, small sample size, was that although there weren't any actual maniacs, there were also fewer solid players and the tables I sat at (small sample size, obviously) were actually slightly easier than the weekend play.

Also, as an interesting bonus, I sat next to the daughter of T.J. Cloutier. She confirms he has a horrible craps problem.

I should be making my first trip to try the new tables next weekend. What games are the tables capable of playing. I've seen that they have hold'em and omaha-anything else?

Lou the mrket does not share your optmism
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/qui...=0&o_symb=ptek
Good luck you got work cut out for ya!!

I'm pretty sure I'll head over tomorrow (June 20) to Harrah's Cherokee. I'll get there early enough to sign up for PLO8 and PLO, but there is no guarantee either game will make before the tables all fill with NLHE in the early afternoon.

I went over to Harrah's for the first time yesterday and thought I'd post a short trip report. This is my first post on the site, and I only get to play live casino poker 4-5 times a year (AC and Vegas) so go easy on me.

Let me qualify my report by noting that I only played for about an hour, and lost my $200 buy in after getting sucked out by a flush draw. Take from that what you will. On to the report: Once I got to the casino, finding the poker room was near impossible. Better signage would be appreciated for first-timers. The sign-up system is also rather convoluted. You have to get a players card (waited in line 20 minutes to get mine) and then load money onto the card at a cashiers cage. Only then can you sign up for a game. Once I signed up, Eric at the poker room was extremely helpful in explaining the PokerTek tables, and my tablemates were gracious as I got used to it for the first few hands. I prefer 2/5, but only one table was going and it was full, so I took a seat at 1/2. On to the playing...

First off, the table technology is very intuitive and easy to understand for anyone who has played live poker before. Great job PokerTek. I especially enjoyed being able to see the exact amount in the pot. I wish there was some way to incorporate that technology into live poker. Speaking of live poker, I almost felt like we were playing in a standard poker room. Almost. A lot of the game feel is the same, and the game takes on much more of the essence of live poker rather than the feel of an online game. However, it doesn't quite get there. The table talk is severely ratcheted down because everyone seems to be constantly staring at their screens. Also, the constant "pop" everytime someone makes an action (like folding) or puts their finger on a "chip" gets annoying. That may seem like a petty annoyance, and it is, considering that in live poker you are constantly hearing chips being shuffled and stacked, but nevertheless the constant computerized sounds makes the experience just that much less authentic feeling IMO. The play was generally decent, with a few really fishy players (one guy with A-8 off calls a supertight player who's all in preflop with K-K, and sucks out of course). Pretty standard for what you'd expect at a normal live game, maybe a tad looser. Overall, I'd rate the experience a B. I'll definitely go back, but if I had a choice between standard live and PokerTek, I'm sticking with standard live.

Now for a technical issue. Does anyone else find it difficult to look at their cards consistently? I was finding myself having to move my hand in "just the right" position to see my cards sometimes.

Anyone playing this coming tuesday the 23rd? Just wanted to know if there will be anyone friendly faces. Thanks

Rysher

Thanks for playing on PokerPro and appreciate the feedback.

You bring up a great question that comes up quite a bit with players new to PokerPro.

Let me try to explain

PokerPro uses a touch screen. Touch screens are designed to sense a single touch point. Next time you are at some sort of touch screen on an Iphone or on some other Kiosk, touch the screen on two places at the same time and see what happens. The screen becomes very confused.

Same thing happens on PokerPro. Most players who are new to the system, tend to cup their hands over the cards and lay both hands over the screen, thus touching it in dozens of spots. This confuses the touch screen.

What I do is cup both of my hands over the cards, but touch the screen only in one spot (tip of my right pinky finger). This allows only me to see my cards, and since I am only touching the screen on one spot, the card curl should work perfect everytime.

Hope the helps

Lou

EDIT: Just noticed my avatar... Thats NOT how to do it since the person is touching the screen in several spots because they are laying their entire hand on the screen. I think I need a new avatar

Actually this is not true. The screens on iPhones are designed so they can be touched in more than one place at the same time. For example that's how the zoom function works - you touch two places on the screen and drag your fingers apart.

Lou,

I appreciate the feedback, and I will take your advice. I was doing exactly as you described not to do (i.e. cupping both hands on the screen around the cards). I should also mention that none of the more experienced players seemed to have the issue I was having, so it's probably just something you need to get used to.

I'll be there from 6PM on. Tall guy with a "Hendersonville" shirt on.

oops... you are correct. I have an iphone, so super dumb example by me.

I was thinking of the more standard resistive or capacitve touch screen technology... I am not sure how apple pulls tht off... its pretty cool.

Lou

Lou, I cup one or both both hands over the cards every time and never have any problems, and I've logged probably 80-90 hours so far. Last time I played, the woman to my right was having problems finding the right spot, but she was dragging her hands on the screen if the cards didn't flip over the first time she put her hands down ... when she started lifting and replacing her hands she quickly found the right spot and had no more problems.

Oh, and having logged that many hours, I am hoping that comps will be forthcoming soon.

Lou, does harrahs cheroke have records of how much i won lost are these records automicaly reported to the irs via title 31 provsions? Do I or anyone that plays the machines have any anyonimity at all when it comes to cash outs and buy ins?

PK...

I have been trapped a few times before by gimmick accounts that were posting as legit players with real questions... I am suspicious given your brief posting history, but hope this is not the case with you and will give you the benefit of the doubt.

The issue you bring up is a common rumor that dealers spread in mixed rooms with PokerPro. In the past, they have used this mis-information to try to scare players away from the PokerPro tables.

PokerPro is a computer so of course it has records. However nothing is reported to the IRS. There is no such report in the system, and no method that I know of for a casino to even develop such a report, nor do I know why they would.

You are mixing up issues with Title 31. Title 31 laws are in place to report large cash transactions and prevent money laundering (i.e. a drug dealer taking large amounts of cash to casino, buying chips, playing a little and then cashing out... voila... dirty money is turned into clean money)

If you bring more than $10,000 cash into any part of the casino, it will get flagged as potenitally suspicious and will you go through some sort of Title 31 process to confirm you are not a criminal and are not trying to launder money.

So, answer is no on your IRS rumor

And Title 31 has nothing to do with PokerPro, it has to do with large cash transactions over $10,000.

Lou

I just played on PokerPro tables for the first time over the weekend (1/2 NLHE). Overall, I found the experience to be much better than I had hoped, although at this stage I still prefer playing with physical cards and chips.

First, for anyone who thinks that these tables are akin to playing online, I think you're mistaken. The game is much closer to analog poker (that would be the counterparty to digital poker, wouldn't it?) than it is online. You're still looking at players, you're still seeing their faces, and depending on the table, you're still talking to them. (My first table was *very* quiet, but other tables can be chatty.)

I do think that there's a little something missing by not seeing how people handle their chips when they're betting, but it's not enough of an issue to keep me from using these tables. And as someone who lives in the north Georgia suburbs, it's a great option (heck, it's the only option) for such a short drive (less than three hours).

Overall, though, I think the PokerPro table is an excellent recreation of analog poker. (I especially like the way the corners of the hole cards curl up when you cup your hand(s) around them on the screen.)

I know the pros and cons have been beaten to death, but here are some oif the advantages to these tables:

1. Probably play more hands per hour with fast dealing
2. Not possible to act out of turn
3. No mistakes on who wins pot
4. No time wasted shoving pot to winner, counting chips
5. You can always see to the penny how deep everyone's stack is
6. No tipping dealer for each pot won
7. Your odds of winning the hand are shown if someone's all in

The game I played on Saturday was a little like a bad home game in some respects. I don't know if that's because the digital tables made people play differently or if they just normally play that way. Specifically, what I mean is that there wasn't much pre-flop raising going on and there were lots of limpers. There were way more hands with 5-6 people seeing the flop than there were 2-3 people (10 people seated at all times when I was there).

The poker room is nice and seemed to be genuinely smoke-free (nothing drifting in from the smoking section). The men's room is very close, so close you can get in and out without missing a hand if you're speedy. And you can get bottled water from an ice bin at any time without waiting for a waitress to come around.

For better or worse, there was, as most of you know, no alcohol served in the casino. And for better or worse, alcohol is coming to the casino at some point, but no one seemed to know exactly when. The casino's liquor license was reported to have been approved. Personally, this doesn't bother me, as I like to have one adult beverage while I play, and I also enjoy playing against the guy who has had 10-12 adult beverages. Drunks don't bother me, but I know some people don't enjoy their company.

I'd give the PokerPro tables an A-, and I'll certainly be back to Harrah's in Cherokee.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt Lou. As you can see my join date is dec 2005. Yes I do not have many posts. I mainly just read other post
as 2+2 is the absolute best on line forum for gaming strategy and info.

As for title 31, if you don't mind I would like to correct you on a few of the reporting techniques casinos use to track players.

First, reporting starts before the 10,000 threshold as been reached. If a player were to buy in or cash out 10,000.01 then they would automatically be asked to provide identification if the casino does not already have that info. The casino I am employed at, yes I am a dealer, if a player has one transaction of 2,000 I am required to give a physical description of the player, race, clothing, sex. At this point the casino reports that to a (MTCL) multiple transaction currency log. If the player continues to purchase checks at some given point the casino will ask for the customers Id. I believe this is 5,000 but not completely sure. If a player buys in or cashes out 10,000.01 in a 24 hour gaming day then the casino is required to file a (CTRC) currency transaction report.

This is different from an SAR suspicious activity report. An SAR ir filed when a casino has knowledge or reasonably suspects that money is being laundered through the casino on behalf a criminal enterprise i.e. terrorism, racketing, or money laundering.


Title 31 is the casino version of the (BSA) the bank secrecy act. If one deposits more than 10,000 in one day at there bank, say in there checking account that info is required to forwarded to the IRS. I can only suspect, but with a lot of confidence, that this law is on the books to track undocumented income that an indivual might not want to pay taxes on. It was not till the patriot act did this also directly apply to suspicious activity, terrorism or criminal activity.

I guess the question that you may or may not have the info to is do the poker tech tables and the process in which one buys in and cashes out keep a record of your win loss history like say a member of a slot club has, and would the casino be required to keep that info on file or report to the IRS if one had a substantial win over the course of the year?

We played yesterday afternoon and loved it. I thought the whole set-up is great! I loved how easy it is to use and you can play so many more hands an hour. If I had a choice of PokerPro tables or a dealer I would chose the PokerPro tables.

First post on these forums, but I've lurked for a while, so bare with me. I decided to take a trip down to Cherokee (first in a year) specifically to play these tables after seeing the commentary on this thread and i figured i had a responsibility to post my thoughts for anyone else in the area. Keep in mind my live experience stems from a trip to Vegas where i probably got in 40-50hrs and thats it....otherwise its all online exp.

So i got there thursday around 10:30am...and i was off the bus and loaded my card by 11am. I'd read that it took a long time to get set up but that 30min included atleast 10min of me watching the single table that was playing from the rail to get a feel for the game and tables. There was only one game going, 1/2NL, but it was fairly early and a weekday so i didn't expect more than that. Eric was there and helped set me up and gave me a tutorial, and was good for conversation while things were slow. That was good because it kinda opened people up a little bit....there was very little conversation and most of the players knew each other. Unfortunately for me, most of the players at the table knew what they were doing, and play was tight. As the hours went on more and more "fishy" players started coming to the table, the average pot for my session was steadily climbing, and table conversation was starting to increase. By the time i had to leave around 7:30pm, at least one person that showed up and just threw his money away, one that ended up giving his money away thinking he could run over the players at the table and learned pretty fast he couldn't, and one that wasn't throwing it away, but was very willing to make big calls with weak hands on coordinated boards. So the types of players you want at a table are available at this poker room, i just think i made the mistake of showing up too early and having to play with some tough regulars for a few hours (and atleast 3 of them were there longer than i was that day)...but then again, its a confidence boost any time you show up to a game and feel very comfortable with people that you know are the regulars and leave with a profit (not as much as it could have been...but bad situations you can't get away from happen). When i left at 7:30pm there was already 4 1/2NL tables running "8-9 handed", but it seemed every table was running short-handed due to players getting up and doing various things....mostly dinner breaks but we had one player at our table just getting up for 20+min smoking and playing slots and coming back for maybe 10-20min then repeating the process again. A 3/6 limit game actually got underway around 4pm i think it was, but it disbanded an hour or so later. No idea why, but it had people that had waited atleast an hour to get a game going so its possible they just didn't have the time to stay at that point. I'd be interested to know how long the NL games went thursday night/friday morning if anyone can tell me. I work 3rd shift and often have a string of days off where i usually would be up during the prime hours for this poker room. If they're going all night when i'd normally be awake i'm much more likely to come down there to play.

Now my opinion on the tables...they're great. My only complaint being the dead spot/scratches in the screens over the confirmation button that seems to be forming due to people having to use their Player Rewards cards on the screens. I saw it on my screen a player to my immediate left was complaining about it...and it looked like others were having similar issues. Otherwise, the lack of a dealer, chips and the minor freezing i've read about on this thread weren't really issues for me. It maybe froze 3 times in the 7=8hrs i was at the table, and it didn't really mess with the flow of the game enough to impact my experience. I really didn't think i was going to like the lack of chips, but having to have the player reward card in hand to confirm decisions gave me something to fiddle with in my hands anyways (and i never was any good at chip tricks). Also i think i underrate how much i have gotten used to seeing a player's exact stack amount from playing online so much. I didn't really realize that until i got home and thought about how i didn't make any stupid decisions because i under/overestimated a player's stack (as i occasionally did in Vegas with clay chips). The board is very easy to see, at least from the seat i was in, and didn't seem to have any problems with glare (there's a lot of windows because there's an entrance directly into the room).

People still give off tons of tells, despite what some of the previous posters have stated, but betting patterns are still the primary way of making decisions. So don't believe some of the posts that say that having electronics takes away tells, it doesn't. If anything it just shifts those same tells to other things. For instance, I immediately noticed i was doing certain things with my player rewards card when i had a bad hand and was ready to fold before the action got around to me preflop, and i had to try to normalize my actions so i didn't give anything off. Its like when a player holds regular cards a certain way and is just waiting for his action to throw them away, but the card is basically your stylus for the screen and you tend to do the same thing. I'm a fairly tight player, and when i see people looking at me before they decide to limp in or not in early position it clued me in fast that i must have been doing something they picked up on. Of course, if i'd stop looking at my cards before it was my turn it'd help, but i don't like slowing the game down. One person that was at my table for a few hours also gave off a ton of tells with his body language and stares, and i know i moved him off a couple hands where he had me beat simply because i knew he was weak and i had an extremely tight image. The tells DO exist still with this format, and don't let it scare you from coming down and trying these pokerpro tables.

On a related note, the issue of alcohol in the casino got passed for sure as we were talking about it at the table. A Budwiser guy came in while we were playing and said they'd have vending machines set up in 30 days, but nobody seemed to believe that. I'm still wondering if it'll just be beer or if you'll actually be able to get a mixed drink there. I don't care personally since i don't drink at the table, but it always gets more action going at live tables so I'm all for it!

All in all, I'm pleasantly surprised by the tables and I'm definitely coming back.

Scott:
I played until the games broke up, Thur. night/Fri. morning. I don't recall the exact time it was when the it broke up, but it was around 5:00. Guitar expert may know. He was there too, when the game broke up.
The game broke up Fri night/Sat. morning around 6:30.