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Old 11-15-2018, 12:49 AM   #426
Koss
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

So the high-hand promo is gone, and is replaced by a a full house pyramid. I have mixed opinions, which I'll get to once I try to explain it. I'm not sure if FK invented this, but I haven't seen or heard of it anywhere else (I don't get around to other rooms much).

The way it works is this. Each Wednesday at (noon?), they will draw 3 cards. For example, last week it was a King, 6, and 3. All full-house combos using those cards as the top of the house (Kings full of 2's, 6's full of 8's, etc.) become eligible for a bonus. It's first come first serve. The first person to make that specific combo of full house using both hole cards win a bonus. The bonuses are in pyramid form, with a bottom row of 8 bonuses of $100, a row of 7 at $150, going up to $1500 for the top spot. Once a unique combo hits, that combo is crossed off, and the first box on the pyramid is paid out. So the last of the 36 full house combos to hit is the big winner.

Why it's good for the game:
-It ups their Wednesday volume and hopefully builds some hype for the big bonuses come peak weekend hours.
-It can loosen up the game, as people start plaing some garbage hands, like 73o, trying to chase the bonus.

Why it's bad:
-I tend to play a lot of Sunday/Monday evenings. The last two weeks the pyramid was done for the week by then. So the $1 drop I'm paying is going to subsidize people who play Wednesday to Saturday.
-A lot of the screens in the room get hi-jacked to show the current pyramid status, so less sports on TV.

The bad beat is neutral EV regardless of room volume, and the high hand favored players at off-peak hours (like me).

It's not going to affect my volume, although my personal winrate likely takes a small hit, as I have claimed a few high hand bonuses during its time. The only way it hurts me is if it kills the room action on Monday/Tuesday nights. So far the action has still been pretty good there. GLC doesn't seem to be pillaging their volume too much.

On the plus side, the comp rate is now $1/hr.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:48 AM   #427
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

The pyramid concept is not a new one. SEagle has had 'Soaring Hands' from time to time and Toledo as well had different versions of the promotion.

FKeepers seems to zero in on Wednesdays for promos, I believe the August Anniversary promos are usually on Wed as well.

I'm sure you've seen a dip in volume but maybe some new Players in the room. The BBJ shouldn't go up as fast either.

My playing volume usually drops off from now until the end of the year so we'll see how things are shaking out going into 2019. GL
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:46 AM   #428
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Koss vs Answer20.. fight
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:06 PM   #429
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Bro you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to PM me and say he was talking **** about my mom or something, and then do the same to him.

Maybe someday we will end up at the same table. I'm not quite rolled for his deep PLO games though, so I guess Answer20 wins by default.
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:54 PM   #430
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

FYI the high hand pyramid will reset on Mondays starting on 12/10. Because it's on a 5 day rotation this week, there is a good chance the top spot might be at $3000 next week. Should be a good week.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:00 AM   #431
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post
Maybe someday we will end up at the same table. I'm not quite rolled for his deep PLO games though, so I guess Answer20 wins by default.
PLO is very, very shortstack friendly.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:18 PM   #432
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

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PLO is very, very shortstack friendly.
Yeah, all PL and NL games can usually be played shorstacked with a simpler strategy. While you can play PLO this way, it's not nearly as small bankroll friendly as shortstacking hold'em. Because equities run closer together in PLO, it's a lot harder to get your money is a strong favorite. The pot-limit part makes it a bit trickier too, as a big part of short stacking is being able to jam when you have an edge, even if it's an overbet.

I've thought about taking a few $100 buyins to a PLO table, but it's more likely to end badly than doing a similar strategy at hold'em. Not to mention I'm not nearly as good at PLO as I am NL. I played a bit of PLO back in my online days. I enjoyed it as a change of pace, but just don't understand the game on the same level as I do NL. It's on my bucket list to learn at some point. Not to mention I find short-stacked poker boring.

Back in 04-05, there used to be a 2-2-5 uncapped NL game at Greektown that often played SUPER deep. But the min buy was only $200. I would occasionally hit & run it, because guys would get offended when you tried to only play $200 and just try to blast you off the table. You could just nit it up and get your money in good.
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:52 AM   #433
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

As of the 1st, the BBJ is now quads beaten. I guess the FH pyramid is taking up so much of the jackpot $, they needed to tighten up the bad beat so it can grow to a respectable amount.
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:18 AM   #434
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

They would've had to request a change in the BBJ promotion/formula and get approval from the MGCB most likely. You should see if it increases at a slower rate, which might be hard to tell with the decreased action this winter. That would be the only way they could increase 'excess' promotion funds and filter them into other promos instead of the BBJ.

Growth may attract more players once it gets bigger, whereas previously I liked the way they 'rewarded' regulars with a much easier target to achieve. If a high % of the regs that are left are nits, then it will hit more often ... which is not good for business. GL
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:37 AM   #435
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

This looks like well a KOSS vs ANSWER20 !!!FIGHT!!!!
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:11 PM   #436
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post

Back in 04-05, there used to be a 2-2-5 uncapped NL game at Greektown that often played SUPER deep.
That was a fantastic game until all the action players got banned 😂.
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:16 PM   #437
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post
I've thought about taking a few $100 buyins to a PLO table, but it's more likely to end badly than doing a similar strategy at hold'em.
No way, brotha. When you shortstack with $100 BIs you're often times getting it in pre 5 or 6 or 7 ways (at the expense of bad regs bitching about how little you're buying in for). Can't beat those odds. That doesn't really happen in NLHE. Just gotta super selective with your starting hands (obviously).

There's nothing like sitting down with $100 and suddenly having $700 in just one hand. (Yeah, I know it's not *that* easy, but you can always reload and try again.)

Then when you have a stack, you just play standard AF.

I ran $100 up to about $3k a month ago or so at FK, then I got half of my stack in with AAKQ double suited. Flop gave me the nut flush draw and open ender, and gave villain top set (there was a shortstack all-in pre). I banged the nut flush on the turn, but the board paired on the river. Almost turned $100 into ~$7k in one hour. Oh, well. Maybe next time.

I'm baffled that villain called my 4bet pre with KK, two disconnected rags and no suits. I think he thought he was playing NLHE.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:00 PM   #438
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
They would've had to request a change in the BBJ promotion/formula and get approval from the MGCB most likely. You should see if it increases at a slower rate, which might be hard to tell with the decreased action this winter. That would be the only way they could increase 'excess' promotion funds and filter them into other promos instead of the BBJ.

Growth may attract more players once it gets bigger, whereas previously I liked the way they 'rewarded' regulars with a much easier target to achieve. If a high % of the regs that are left are nits, then it will hit more often ... which is not good for business. GL
I'm not sure how laws work, but I can only assume that the previous high hand promos/FH pyramid came from the same drop that feeds the BBJ. There was a noticeable change in BBJ growth when FK instituted high hands 5 years ago or so. The jackpot would routinely get to room share levels quickly, but I haven't seen it clear $50K in a while now, and it seems to only grow 1 or 2 grand a week. I think they are hoping the quads beaten will get it up above $200K, driving traffic to the room for the big score.

As for decreased action, it hasn't been that bad so far. Off peak hours are down slightly, but those were never the high profit times anyways. The room is still pretty full for prime time on the weekends.

Some regs on Thursday were frustrated by the lack of PLO, when 2 games were going at gun lake. They mentioned some action players that the games revolve around going there, so the FK regs seem to have followed. Answer20 or Dick Tracy could probably confirm this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by otter View Post
That was a fantastic game until all the action players got banned 😂.
Yeah, if only I could rewind 15 years and go back. I could've probably paid my way through college in this game with what I know now. I was never properly rolled for them, and even back then was a bit of a bankroll nit as a broke college kid (now I'm a broke married guy with 3 kids). I just remember when I read about shortstacking NL around that time, I had to give it a shot in this game. There was nothing better then watching grumpy a-holes turn beat red when I would GII light against their over aggression, win, and then rack up to go play 3/6.

I'd love to hear about how the regs got banned, although given the level of saltiness at those tables, it's not hard to imagine. There were honestly a few times I feared for my safety in that room. I had one guy follow me to the limit game taunting me, and incompetent Greektown management did jack all **** about any of it.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:06 AM   #439
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

I played at FK Thursday night, and I was at the most unruly table I've sat at in a while.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:53 PM   #440
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Time to address a few things....

1st.... MGCB has no authority in Michigan outside of Detroit, each tribe has it's own Gaming Commission and it's own rules

2nd... Yup, most of the PLO action went to Gun Lake. The Thursday PLO game does generally run later in the night, but with a completely different group of players then before.

3rd.... Firekeepers has adjusted with the rest of Michigan and is now raking $2 for promo money and as such is adding "Hot Hands" on Monday Jan 7. Over 14k in promo money given back to the players every week is pretty nice.

4th... The Full House Pyramid has really opened up play. The room is known for being tight, but most of the regs are playing terrible cards just to try to hit a Full House. the variance has increased, but so has the action.

5th... Undoubtedly the best tournament room in the Midwest. 370+ runners for a $500 buy in last week. Over 100 regularly Friday and Saturday nights and of course MSPT. The also got rid of the awful "Survivor" tournament on Sat AM and that's now a bounty too.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:10 PM   #441
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

1) Looks correct, there is a National Indian Gaming Commission and each tribe does govern themselves .. thus you can go to Soaring Eagle jail. MGCB does have auditing access to the Indian casinos, but it looks to be limited to the Gaming Pact alone (revenue) and not necessarily the promotions fund.

This puzzles me a bit since GLake was having trouble with 'Gaming' on the day it opened and 'Gaming' was causing delays starting their HH promos. I will have to ask more about who these folks specifically are to get a better understanding of it. 'Gaming' didn't even know what The Bravo System was ... yikes!!

A promo fund is a fund of 'non-casino' funds that the casino gets to determine how to use (with permission) ... within some sort of rules that are monitored by a 3rd part 'Gaming' group or possibly just the governing board of the tribe.

There was a major issue at another casino that filtered the poker room promo fund out onto the floor/pits when the room closed and 'Gaming' ruled it was within the boundaries or 'spirit' of a promo and ultimately allowed/approved it.

2) The 'daily' PLO streak continues at GL. I was thinking that Christmas would slip through with no PLO but when I checked Bravo around 6PM it showed a table running. They actually had 5/10 PLO (with 2 on the list) running during the 2nd NFL game yesterday.

3) Promos are a good way to keep Players attention without them feeling the pain of the additional rake. Most Floors are smart to only mention the adjustment to the rake when a table gets short and not indicate that the promo drop is still $2. I think GLake drops the promo down when rake is dropped to $3 or less. In my last pow-wow with some of the Floors I indicated that the Dealers need the freedom to adjust the rake themselves and if the Floors choose to go lower then so be it.

4) Promos are a good way to loosen up play. If that's happening then the benefits are seen by everyone involved ... Players, Dealers and Room. Unfortunately still not worth the extra drive for most '131' Players.

5) Unquestionably the best (only) large tournament room in Michigan. I've yet to run into any of the issues at AmStar-HH-Poto that others have told stories about, but I'm not a tournament reg either. I've heard Toledo runs a good tournament but it's hard to keep track of formats and structures down there. I hope that FK can keep it's staff up to speed or be smart enough to pull in WSOPc Dealers (like Poto does) to handle MSPT time. Obviously GLake is no where near ready to host a large 'series' and probably wont be for at least two years IMO.

Thanks 'Player' .. I like to think my posts are at least 80% accurate, good to have someone keep me on point. GL
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:13 PM   #442
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
In my last pow-wow with some of the Floors I indicated that the Dealers need the freedom to adjust the rake themselves and if the Floors choose to go lower then so be it.
I might ask about this in the casino employees thread. FK has an almost standard structure. It's 5+1 (although I guess 2 now, but I didn't notice). 6-handed they will give you 3+1. 5 and 4 handed you get 2+1. But they make you jump through the hoops of asking the dealer, who calls the floor, who lowers the rake. I try not to be a huge nit about it, but during weekday nights the tables are rarely full, and people bounce in and out a lot.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:15 AM   #443
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

"Gaming" always gets in the way of starting things, it doesn't matter the casino. They are slow to approve things. That's why FKC didn't start everything until Jan 7 and not the New Year.

Dealers will never have the authority to do a rake lower by themselves. Too much can go wrong and floors want to know if a table is short.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:49 PM   #444
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Charity rooms typically went with "Players (in hand) minus 1 or 2" if the max wasn't available and the Floor had the ability to make adjustments if they wanted. No promo there of course.

It's just that forcing the Player(s) to make the request is the bigger issue in my mind. Let's show some customer care/service and be proactive ... even if it does cause lost revenue in the long run. GL
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:50 PM   #445
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Firekeepers vs Gun Lake battle of the blinds? Run it
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Old 01-28-2019, 07:44 AM   #446
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Word of a 2nd hotel tower being in the works popped up during the MSPT FT chat on Sunday .. interesting. They must know the numbers, but without expanding the gaming floor at the same time I'm not sure the gain. It will certainly help during the MSPT events held at FKeepers.

I'm weak in that part of the business since I refuse to pay big bucks for a room I only plan to sleep in and don't comp my way into a room either. I'm sure they track the phone calls and trends ... not sure how well their concerts are attended either. GL
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:31 AM   #447
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Quick .. FKeepers is again the WMich leader in BBJ ... start an advertising campaign!! This should last about 3-4 weeks if neither hits .. good luck!!

Not sure what is in Turtle Creeks piggy bank .. they are closing March 31st so it will be zero soon .. and MGM is over $80k right now. MCC is locked in at $30k as they are dumping their cash into the HH promos.

I didn't realize how 'small' the hotel is .. just over 200 rooms .. so doubling that certainly makes perfect sense to be able to handle multiple events simultaneously without forcing participants to leave the property. Properly staffing the food services will have to follow suit for sure. GL
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:40 PM   #448
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

CEO is a Hotel Executive so of course more Hotel Space and amenities will be her primary way to spend money. Plus there is a shortage in the Battle Creek area of hotels, hence why Firekeepers currently gets $159 a night for a weekday and something ridiculous for a weekend.

Played a nice session on Saturday, action was good and it was clear that some tax return ballers were back in play. Pyramid was $5k and at the top if you could make 88844, it was still there when I left but not sure if someone hit it late night or Sunday.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:39 PM   #449
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

The pyramid indeed makes people play even more bonkers now. /
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:18 PM   #450
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Re: FireKeepers Casino (Battle Creek, Michigan)

Besides Bad Beat hitting at firekeepers.. anyone know the turn out for bounty tournament on the 17th
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