Lower rake promotions almost never work. The majority of the pool doesn't care and the only ones who are going to care are the total nits who make the games awful to begin with. I mean while MC was losing their player pool to MGM they were offering rake free tables during certain times. You want to find a dying room, look for one that offers reduced rake or promotions that force a player to have "x" amount of hours for reward.

Tournaments in Detroit are done. Casino management isn't going to spend the money on dealers for it. I don't doubt that the union troubles that came up because of temp dealers dealing the tournaments at MotorCity sealed that rooms fate. MGM won't go back to them so long as they're still tops in cash games. Greektown might be the only casino that could do it since they don't really have a player pool.

As for the sportsbook, remember they have to split that up with Fanduel and at the end of the day the real cash cow there is the mobile app. Players are going to play Fanduel anyways if the poker room is there or not.

There is a bigger problem for live casino poker. In the state of Michigan last night there were only three 2-5 games running and nothing higher then 2-5. Again the whole state of Michigan on a Saturday night and no major casino or indian casino could muster up more then three 2-5 games. Right now you have a bunch of rake traps at 1-2 or 1-3. I don't see a room full of 1-2 with 100-150 dollars every hour being taking off the table as a good thing.

Now might be a good time to make 2/5 NL the lowest limit, or maybe run 2/4 NL to make it sting a little less for recs. At some point the limits have to increase, might as well be now with inflation etc.

Doubtful it will ever happen anytime soon. Poker Rooms need those rake traps to survive. I'm sure most room operators wish they could have more 3-6 or 4-8 limit games. You get more hands an hour a lot of them hit the rake limit quicker and players probably go broke slower. Looking at Bravo right now on a Monday afternoon you have only two 2-5 games running in Michigan, besides a 5-5 PLO game in Jack Cleveland Casino you have to drive 256 miles to find another 2-5 game at Rivers Poker Room in Des Plaines, IL.

Running 2/4NL or 2/5NL only would mean every pot is larger - thus hitting the $5-7 cap more often. Although at $1/$2 the casino may take a larger share of each pot compared to $2/$5 - that doesn't necessarily equate to the casino making more. I'd expect the casino to come out a bit better assuming the number of running tables stays the same.

Could be a win for dealers too, I'd feel a bit more generous with tipping compared to $1/2 since less money is getting raked away.

This is what I was saying that 1/2 really shouldn’t be the lowest limit anymore it’s troubling that poker hasn’t kept up with inflation at all especially in the Michigan ecosystem.

But those that play 2/5 keep it light and friendly do your part in making the game inviting so more of the pool feel confident in taking shots. On more than one occasion I’ve noticed just some bad behavior mostly from younger try hard regs that haven’t matured enough to know that they aren’t gods gift to the world yet.

I'm going to stand up in the back of the room and suggest that there's another way you should be looking at rake .. ACTION!

What's the max rake at 1/2? .. the same as 2/5, eh? What game has more 3b and fold hands? .. 2/5 BY FAR.
1) We live in a No Flop No Drop World (for now) .. 2/5 has way more of these hands than 1/2
2) 2/5 games are full of Nits and Snippers (maybe one in same)
3) I will show you eight 1/2 tables I'd rather play at than the two 2/5 I have to look for
4) The vast majority of Players want a friendly-talkative table .. not full of 'for profit' bots
5A) 2/5 Players love to try and impose their 'skill' at 1/2 while waiting for a seat ..
5B) 1/2 Players love to take down 2/5 Players with their 'favorite hand' for $200, not $500
6) 2/5 NL Hands, like 1/3 PLO, take much longer than the 'non-tanking-emotionally driven Player' hands in 1/2

I'm not saying it's one way or the other, but a quantity over quality discussion needs to take place. Large Rooms need separation between the Players that want to play deeper (that want to play 'Poker') and the ones who are there for the High Hands and to have some fun. And until the that Player pool is less than 80% of the Players you need to keep it affordable to enter the arena.

Yes, you can argue that Players will always show up .. case in point Australia where rake is UNCAPPED at 10% and still beatable by some opinions. But without a steady stream of Players willing to allow 4-5 Min Buy-Ins taken off the table per hour you wont have a game very long. The current rake in the Midwest is 1-3 MBI per hour.

At Rivers Rosemont the 5/5 PLO game is time raked at $22/hour, or $198/hour, which is at least 30% more than the 1/2 tables take in .. but that Player pool is only 20-30 Players IMO. How many of the 1/2 Reg Player Pool of 4-5000, that can't stand an open seat for more than 10 minutes, are willing to absorb higher BI with potentially higher rake?

Although management hates overhead .. Dealers, Floors, tables and floor space are all overhead in a casino .. I think you have to apply the quantity over quality concept to poker.

Look at tournaments .. Satellites are massive income for Rooms. Allowing Re-Buys are massive for prize pools .. quantity, quantity and more quantity. GL

Whens the last time you have played 2/5 in the Detroit area? It’s not like this at all imo there is still a lot of fish that are actually deep compared to a 1/2 game. What you’re saying is actually what I think the perception of the 2/5 game is to 1/2 players which is why many are scared to play. My point why 2/5 regs need to remember to keep it light and friendly while still being able to make a significant profit.

Combining the 1/2 pool with the 2/5 pool should do a lot to alleviate those issues except for 5B ... even for 5B, the same thing could have been said whenever the transition from .50/1 to 1/2 happened.

In theory it could also push each pool up a limit ... i.e. 1/2 to 2/5 ... 2/5 to 5/10 etc. because players good enough to beat the new combined 2/5 pool would be able to move up to 5/10, so on and so forth.

4 2/5 with a 10 person list on a TUESDAY at Motor City.
Poker is back in Detroit baby!

Hey all:

I was at MC poker room the other night.

It was VERY busy. They had like 14 tables going when I got there. I played for MANY hours, well into the night. When I left, they still had 4 tables going! When I first go there, there were several 2/5 tables going, and I noticed some players from MGM were there.

They had several dealers that I have not seen ever OR have not seen for a very long time.

It is almost certain that the room is going to be permanently moved.

UNLESS MC's plan is to eventually (sooner rather than later) shutting down the poker room, I think they are making a mistake.

They don't have the table's computer tied into the network yet, so the floorman has to manually log in your play. The tables seem to be haphazardly set up...I get a slight sense of claustraphobia in the room. The tables on the floor have people walking past and all the noise from the casino floor. They also seem to be tournament tables?

No food this time, just bottled water. I wish they put some bread out to go with the water!

Most of the players are regs. The table I was at had poor action most of the time.

IF MC wanted to take MGM's action, they would not have moved the room. They would be pushing great promotions. They would have food service. They would have drink service. The equation is very simple...want more players, more action? Treat them well, give them a reason to come beyond "we have a room open".

As time has gone by, games have generally gotten tougher/tighter players, and greedier management. I think all the "professional" low rollers are going to be doomed very soon.

Hey all:

Just got an electronic mail from MGM that they have reached a settlement with their Detroit workers. Within a week, all of the casino will be up & running. I presume this includes the poker room.

MCC day in the sun is now probably over?

It will interesting to see if MGM gets all of their old business back. My guess is that they do.

Per a Facebook post .. poker will be running some time after Noon Monday.. GL

Should be a busy night, I think its the first full week for all 3 rooms downtown. MGM already jam packed at 2:00pm with 11 games, three 2-5 games, two 1-3 Omaha, and the rest 1-2. Motor City has just three 1-2 games going. Greektown shockingly has 1 1-2 game going right now.

Bravo is showing 1/3 now the lowest game at MGM. Happy new year if true!

It is true. However, sounds like they didn’t change the buy ins at all which I’m very disappointed at. No reason why you should be able to buy into 2/5 for $200, less than the max at 1/3. Was hoping 1/3 would be $100-$400 and 2/5 $400-$1k

The double board bomb pots were pretty stupid and didn't induce any action, plus the rake on those is $10. (Optional participation)
Action otherwise seems pretty good in the 1/3. Min buy-in $50 but I didn't see many stacks under $200.

Hey all:

I was playing the pokers the other day at MGM. EVERY ONE of their tables was full! They had a robust waiting listing for multiple games at 10 PM.

Motorcity had 5 tables going and Greektown had two (according to Bravo Poker).

Clearly, MGM is starting to pull away from their competition. IF Motorcity wants to have poker, they have made a major mistake by moving the room and getting rid of food.

All of the big money games were also going on at MGM, nothing greater than 1/3 at Motorcity or Greektown.

Hey all:

I was back to MGM last night. It was pretty busy, but not quite as busy the week before. The weather was pretty bad out though, so I guess that is to be expected.

They are still running the bomb pots. I've stopped playing it. I've never one both, but I have chopped a couple of times. In the event of a chop, it is likely that the house is the only winner. The rake is simply too much.

I've said it before and I'll say it again....the rake of $6+$2 at 1/3 is simply crippling over the long run. I can easily play a 4-5-6 hour session. In that session, I'll see NUMEROUS losers who get totally felted. Sometimes those players get felted multiple times. Then there are a bunch of players that start with $200 or $300, but leave with under a $100. Obviously there will be winners, and a couple of them might do very well. I was fortunate that I won a 3 way all in pot, I had the other players covered, so I went from losing to up a bit over $200. In my session, I was the "big winner"! haha. There were a couple of people that made close to $100, but a TON of people who simply lost.

In the long run, I think a player needs to go to 2/5 (or higher) OR if they are playing at 1/3, they need to be at a table with deep pocketed, loose players.

There needs to be a mass movement to live casinos spreading 2/5 as the lowest limit with the rake it’s 2024 limits need to go up with inflation sometime…

Why in the world would a casino get rid of their amazing rake trap that people are lining up to play. As of 3pm on a Monday MGM has ten 1-3 NL games and three 2-5 NL games. The buying power of $200 compared to a decade ago is only just above $250. Its amazing the rake hasn't gone higher since it was $6 for near 20 years now. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...07&postcount=1

It's hard to beat a game when a $100+ comes off the table every hour and everyone is nitting it up for jackpots. Like I said before I'm honestly shocked they haven't tried to raise it in almost 20 years. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...07&postcount=1

Is there a list? Then they must not be charging too much.

Yes .. 100% winning Players will win less and losing Players will lose 'faster'. But as long as there's a healthy list the business of Poker can go ahead and conduct 'business' and answer to the higher ups in the casino .. as well as pay themselves a touch more every so often, eh?


Let's compare that Big Mac price to Rake over the last 10 years, eh? GL

They didn't increase the cap, so max buy in at 1/3 is 100bbs. Even though it's very reg heavy, even on the weekends, I prefer 2/5 at MGM. It's much harder to find a well run table at 1/3, and they're typically short stack. 2/5 really only swells up for a 4 hour period on the weekends, 7-11PM.

MGM's Last hand standing, the 6-hi straight flush high hand for $10,000 finally got paid out. Now the waiting lists seem a bit more reasonable, but the 1/3 game will probably remain more popular than the 1/2 at places nearby

Any word on if 1/3 is staying at $300 cap? Really should be $500 or even match the stack