Yes ... That's there too .. as part of your 'normal' Federal income tax return as self employed. Lots of folks forget that your employer pays 50% of that for you in a 'normal' job. GL

Who is? The city? Them *assuming* that without proof isn't goignto get them very far. But then again "they"'re never even going to know about you.

Anyone playing this multi-day 1 Toledo tourney?
Do I have this right?
I have 3 different day 1 options:
$80+10=$90 for 8k chips. 89 chips per dollar.
$80+10+40=$130 for 13k chips. 100 chips per dollar.

or do the higher buyin day 1 where 10% advance instead of 5%:
$240+20=$260 for 25k chips. 96 chips per dollar.

When day 2 starts, all chips are equal.

Seems like the 80+10+40 is the way to go?

G1099 with Detroit address = taxes?

Played one Saturday. It's 80+10 with a 40 add on. 5% of the field move on to day 2 WITH the chips they earned in that flight. There was like 40 or something runners last Saturday. They had 2 people advance $160 for 4th and 5th and like $250 for 3rd. So if you finish the flight with 153,500 chips that's what you bring to day 2. I busted 5th.

You can play multiple flights, your best stack moves forward and you get paid $1k for each extra flight you win. You can buy into day 2 for 3k. They start you with 250k. The day 2 blinds roll back so the short stack has 50bb.

thanks.
might play the friday morning flight and then see how the $100 shootout looks in the afternoon. never played a shootout, sounds like fun.

Just stick to the charity rooms


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I've only ever played one shootout. Liked it. Was fun. Do it. Good luck.

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2/2 houses are kind of unusual. You're more likely to find 3/1 or 3/2, but do you really need 2 bathrooms? You'll pay more for that. Rent might be $800-$1200 depending on where you live.

The more info the better. Why are you leaving Vegas? What's wrong with the games there? Are you coming here just to play poker?

What exactly do you mean by, "make a living?" What kind of living are you accustom to? Do you plan to play during the day or at night/early morning?

In the long run the games are much worse here than Vegas and there are no tourists. You'll find pros here. Some good and some bad. Pros go everywhere. And there are a lot more here now than when the casinos first opened. The soft money is in Vegas and California. You'd be crazy to leave. Again if something else is bringing you here that's a different story.

I've heard there's soft money in FL too. And sun year 'round. And the ocean. And no state income tax. And no snow.

I have a 1 bedroom, one bath apartment now for 1000. No back yard.

Making a living in poker means to make standard hourly rate you can make in most cites. Like can a 2/5 game for a dedicated good pro player make around 25-50$ an hr in Det?. Can a player at 1/2 make like 20 an hr. Can PLO at 1/2 with a 5 dollar bring in make like 40-50 an hr for most of the year?

Most players that don't live here don't understand that Vegas is ONLY the king of 1/2 games. They have the most 1/2 games running in America, but for 2/5 and above it is 95% on the strip at the nice casinos where all the pros gather. The tourist are soft, and you can make a killing off of them. The problem is the rest of the time you're battling with 5 to 6 pros at a table.

Andrew Neeme,just to give you a name you might know. He will tell you Vegas has the toughest games in America. Vegas games are very beatable, but doesn't make them soft. Some days they are soft as hell, and others days they are full of pros only willing to put in money when they have an edge

I also don't like playing poker on the strip for reasons outside of the game.

Vegas games are really good. Don't get me wrong, but from what I've seen. California, most Mid West cites, and Florida games are much softer than Vegas will ever be. IMO, Florida and California are too expensive and too packed for what I want now of days.

You're right about the good things you named about Florida, but its expensive to live in south Florida, and the traffic is horrible. Hurricane season is no joke. Summer gets way too humid, so the hot weather can feel too much at times. Vegas is hot, but not humid. Just sunny.

For the type of apartment I have now(fully upgraded,modern) would run me 1600 or more in south Florida where all the good poker rooms are at.

$20/hr is a lot to sustain at $1/2 over a significant volume IMO. Some of the most crushing players I know are barely there, and they game select like crazy. Can't really comment on the larger games.


My experience playing in Vegas was that there was a lot of $1/2 action, but a lot of nit-regs and locals too. The tourists weren't punting massive amounts of money in those games as the big spenders have other diversions. Still juicy and enough that I could play 24/7 if I wanted to.

I'm not sure I'd call the games here worse (in terms of achievable winrate). There are a lot of really bad players in the midwest. They're pretty de-centralized though. Some of them can be complete drool-fests, which I rarely saw in Vegas when I've been there.

The overall COL is lower here, so that will help you a lot. If you had a "normal" job to fall back on and supplement your poker income, I'd just say move and go for it. Especially if you don't have any family type obligations holding you back.

You have some points.

People overrate tourist as being potential money buckets. Most of them aren't willing to lose, or bet a lot of money. Most of them leave after 2 hours max. A lot of times those "soft" games end up broken after two friends leave.

I was playing at Golden Nugget downtown. Great place to play. They have 1/2 no max and mixed game. So sometimes it plays more like a 2/5 or 5/10. Last time I was there was 6 months ago, and guess what the table I ended up at 6 months later?! It was with the same pros/ local regs from last time. It wasn't much action, because everyone for most part was solid. I get a table change to the tourist from California, and the table was CLEARLY softer. I doubled through K8 when I had aces. He called a decent size bet preflop. He bet out the flop with 3 clubs on board,and he had no club just k hi. I had Aces with Ace of clubs. I call. He turns a king, and bets out a real bet this time. The first bet was less than half pot. I shove knowing he had top pair and that he would never fold. He instant calls.

Literally 10 mins later the table breaks. That is the problem with tourist tables. Unless they are winning or they aren't worried about the money. They tend to leave after being stuck a little.

Vegas is more about beating the locals for a living. Most of the locals have been at it for over 15 years at the same rooms. They aren't hard to beat, but they don't get pushed around often.

If I were in your shoes, I would take a serious look at Pittsburgh. Beautiful city, modern, thriving, clean, less crime, nearly as many attractions. I lived there for a while and loved it. Not hard to find affordable housing outside of the posh areas.

Rivers Casino has some good action most nights, and for occasional trips to softer outlying places you've got Meadows, Wheeling Island, Mountaineer. It also puts you 3-5 hours away from lots of other big spots, like Detroit, Columbus, Cincinnati, Baltimore, Niagara Falls, etc... good for weekend trips with poker buds.

Yeah, Pittsburgh is all them things. I would stay where I'm at,and stayed in my last two cities I moved from if I wanted a nice chill city. I see Detroit as a city on the way up but needs more people willing to move there. I plan on starting a business down there. Had an idea to open a no rake cash game and run tourneys from a poker league that actually listen to people of Michigan's lack of tournament series.

You should be able to find a 3/1 home to rent for around $800-$1200 depending on where you live here.

Although it's been a while and times change I lived in Vegas for 2 years, spent time in CA and made a living in MI as a full time pro up until a few years ago for 12+ years playing $2/5-$10/20 NL then eventually $1/3PLO at private games and $2/5 PLO, so I've got some idea.

I'm not going to get into the hourly rate discussion. Check the math forum for that. I will say that when you only have one game to choose from and play full time I don’t think those numbers are sustainable. Yes you can make a living here, but it depends on what kind of living you want and whether or not you can find good games.

I don't know Neeme and only recently heard his name, but if he says it's easier here than Vegas then he's an idiot. Simple as that. Sure Vegas has tough games, but the sheer selection of games makes it a better place to play than here and the tourists are another big consideration. Nobody is moving from Vegas to MI because they think they can make more money. It's exactly the opposite and many pros have left here for other places.
Yes CA has been the poker capitol of the world for a long time now. The games are still great out there, but indeed it's not cheap.

Perhaps you’re a winning player but based on your posts, I don't really think you completely grasp what it takes to make a living playing poker quite yet and you have some learning to do. If you're looking for easier money, MI isn't your path and if you're looking for an easy living poker isn't a good choice for most.

Good luck but unless you have something else that's bringing you here I'd strongly recommend staying there...or at least not coming here.

Thanks for your opinion. I disagree about Vegas though. Vegas does not have a huge selection of games at all times of the year. I play now and know the current landscape. Outside of the Wynn, Aria,and Bellagio good luck finding anything bigger than 1/3 consistently. Plo is a joke in vegas. Aria is the only room with a bigger Plo game daily, and most of the time it plays smaller than you would expect a plo game to play.

I am with you about California. Best games in America. Highest limits. The problem is, I dislike California.

Anyway, I never understood how a couple of post could make another grown up tell you something might not be for you. especially, if they don't even know something as simple as how much money that person makes/has. Or what that person has been through, or accomplished.

People act like you can't travel to games. Detroit is close to a lot of good poker rooms that have different levels of income and resources. I would be a fool to think I'm going to be able to stay only in Detroit games and make great hourly.

One thing I've learned from poker forums and my job at a tech company is poker players and IT/developers have big egos and think they are always right. Too much work to change people's minds. Don't let it get to you when people are critical of your decisions.

I'm going to vegas next week and staying at Planet Hollywood. What's your thoughts on their poker games? Where are some soft 1/2 NL games that aren't loaded with pros as I'm not good enough to play them yet?


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I've been to PH a couple of times. I've caught some decent tables but it seemed there were A LOT of dealers who played there and I think they tend to be nitty/trappy in style. With 'the pit' or whatever they call it PH can tend to pull in some younger males that want to stare at the girls and it doesn't hurt that the nightclub is close to the poker tables.

If you are playing the weekend I've had success at The Orleans on Friday nights and MGM on Saturday nights. I really don't think the 'pros' are loading up at 1/2 on the weekends when you can go to Aria/Ven/Bel and pick off larger stacks at the higher stakes. Certainly things can change but I tell everyone who goes to Vegas from Michigan to play one stake up from normal if you can afford it and that I'm 'very' comfortable at a Aria 1/3 table. GL

Last time I was in Vegas (August) I played a session at PH. Seemed reggier than I expected, but it was loud as all hell in the middle of the damn casino floor surrounded by girls dancing on top of blackjack tables. (So, nice scenery, but ****ty poker environment.) I would have expected that should attract drunk morons.

If you've never been to Vegas before, I'd suggest playing in a bunch of different rooms. It's fun to see different casinos and walk the strip people watching between sessions. You'll find plenty of soft $1/2 games around.

Oh, and grab a slice or two at secret pizza.

I know. The vegas thread is 99% full of people that would tell you go pick up dog crap over playing poker. They say games are miserable. You won't make any money and poker is dead. Etc.. Lol

If you want to play off the strip. When I use to play 1/2. I found golden nugget, red rock, and Orleans(1/3) to be pretty solid. The thing about Orleans is they run 10 handed which I hate. Red rock is a hidden gem. Good promotions, nice casino, friendly locals and best dealers.
Imo golden nugget has the best 1/2 games on a random days and times. You get drunks and tourist from fremont that come in randomly. Plus on weekends you get older business men with money buying I'm for 1000 at 1/2. I've played at tables where an Asian lady would make it 40 preflop every hand. Then a few other times this Asian rich man was making it 200 blind when it got to him. Those days were my most profitable at 1/2.

ugh. played the morning flight in toledo. 36 people, paid 2 seats Monday and top 5 min cashed. Down to 6, $ bubble took 40 minutes, every allin was good. Bubble finally busted, I knocked him out. Gave me 100k w/ bb at 10k. Bb on Monday starts at 5k. Other stacks are 220k, 50k, 30k, 20k. I am looking good. First hand 5 handed I'm on button w/ A10. shove, big stack makes crying call in sb. He has KJ, all kinds of jacks hit. Win that hand I am sitting pretty.

Ugh.gg Bout. At least grats on the cash.

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Sorry. Was hoping for you and me.