Sounds like you would like Limit Holdem better

Exactly what the casual player is thinking! (I wasn't referring to me, I love PLO and PLO8 as much as stud 8!)

You're contradicting your prior post. Noobs are more behind in PLO than at NLHE. And my original post makes the case that stacks get in faster so skill can outweigh luck way faster!

I say start Stud hi-lo games instead. I'm going to make it a point to start an interest list every time I go play in the next three months. I will even play 4/8 to make it palatable.

thank god we've done away with that!

we=internet

You are confusing the **** out of me! I thought you wanted to hear the casual players perspective?? What kind of meta game is this you are playing with me?

GG

Cant beat the French

no talk about the $250 snookers this sat... no interest?

Plo sucks

For cash games definitely MotorCity casino. They seem to always have many tables running all day and night and alot of fish!
For tournaments, I guess it depends what you're looking to spend.
Snookers has a special $250 tournament Saturday at 1pm with 30,000 chips and 30min levels. Here is the weekly schedule link:
http://nolimitcharitypoker.com/

Cadas Room has $100 tournament Saturday at 1pm with 20,000 chips 30min levels.

Cadas Poker Room Weekly Schedule:

1:00 Mon $35 15k chips, 20min levels
7:00 Mon $40 15k chips, 20min levels

1:00 Tues $30 15k chips, 20min levels
7:00 Tues $25 Re-Entry 10k chips

1:00 Weds. $35 15k chips, 20min levels
7:00 Weds. $40 15k chips, 20min levels

1:00 Thurs. $25 Re-Entry 10k chips
7:00 Thurs. $40 15k chips, 20min levels

1:00 Fri $40 15k chips, 20min levels
7:00 Fri $60 15k chips, 20min levels

1:00 Sat $100 20k chips, 30min levels
7:00 Sat $35 15k chips, 20min levels

1:00 Sun (tournament rotates)
7:00 Sun $40 15k chips 20min levels.

They are both in Sterling Heights, Snookers usually has over 100 players in their tournaments. Cadas Room about 40 players.
I usually only can make it out twice a week because its a 40min drive but I prefer Cadas Room because the blind structure is better. More poker, less shovaments

So this is how one get 12k posts...

I am up for playing in a mix game. I am pretty confident in playing the following games:

PLO
PLO/8
NLHE
LHE
LO8
Razz
Stud
Stud/8
Badugi
NL 2-7 Single Draw
2-7 Triple Draw

The problem is that you have to manage a high enough to make the 7 limit games equal the 4 NLHE/PL games. I am fine in playing 6/12 Limit and 1/2 300 cap in the NLHE/PL games. Maybe I am crazy but that works for me. I'd probably actually drive for that game, even out to Sterling Heights. Rotate every orbit or something.
Thoughts?
Also, I would like to play NL Mark Wins.

What are the details I do not see them on any website they advertise on or on there own site nolimitchairty something... I would prolly make the drive and play if I knew a little bit before hand and also had a guarantee seat if I showed up, not going to drive that far for a maybe...

NVM I found it on ani part of the page... I wonder how many players they will get I played NVD's 250, busted fairly fast an hour or 2.... 96 off to a maniac on a 669 board on the flop, the one time he has a hand after a preflop raise I flop bottom boat he has top 99's I ship thinking he has to have AA or KK's nope, ohs well, nothing ventured nothing gained!!!

Most holdem snobs don't like PLO because they call it "a gambling game, and nobody folds." They are right on both accounts, it is a game where it is correct to put your stack in in many situations, including correct to put it in when you are getting the worst of it, as pot odds dictate it. The truth is that the game is much more complicated than holdem, with nuances that they just don't understand.

I agree with Gambit, the reason I started playing PLO online was because the players were so much worse, relative to holdem. Don't get me wrong, the nlhe players are still bad, but on a relative scale not anywhere near as bad as Omaha "where every hand is good enough to see a flop"....(not my strategy, just what you hear from people).

I would rather hammer away at 60/40 edges, and "gamble" 10 times in a session, then find 1 80/20 session in a session. Sure variance is higher, but my rate will be higher if I can handle the variance, and my fun factor will be much higher as well.

I think we ended up debating two different things. Gambit and Steeser are saying PLO is fun and they prefer it. I also like it, but I'm saying it hasn't taken off like people were predicting because people go broke too fast, as opposed to Holdem where people can play a long time without going bust at the table.

I do agree with this. People have been saying that PLO was going to be the new "it" game for a while, and it just hasn't taken off. I would say primarily because it just doesn't play as well on TV.

Good deal - thanks for the info! I'll probably just stay and play at MCC then. I play mainly cash NLHE but will jump in a tourney if they are running during the weekend. Probably end of the month.

Where is Sterlin Heights in relation to MCC? I'll probably stay at MCC since they have a good rate. Any tourneys run at MCC during the week with decent structure or are those two places you mention that much better of a structure that it's worth it? Thanks for the info!

J

Heading up to Snookers to play the 2pm. i can't believe i am actually nervous. Hope i play well and can dodge some coolers.

Good luck! Time for you to catch some run good imo

Will be following on Twitter.

Good luck!

That i can easily believe.

Hard for me to understand how noobs get fleeced faster. Calling off stacks with a huge equity disadvantage (HE) has got to be worse than calling off stacks with a tiny equity disadvantage and plenty of outs (PLO), right? Or is my lack of PLO understanding preventing me from getting why this would be.


We're talking more the long-term viability of the game. That said, NLHE has shown a great deal more viability than people like Mason Malmuth thought.

If there are irrational people lined up to give away their money in one particular game on one particular night and go home, never to come back to the cardroom, obviously playing in that game is +EV. But rather than investing effort to get that particular game going for one night, i'd rather work to get a game going where i can win consistently for a longer time. Exaggeration but it explains why we're considering more than, "Which games are presently softest?"

(EDIT: nvm, i didn't see your follow-ups demonstrating that you get this point.)

This can't be a sufficient explanation, though, because the great NLHE flameout Mason Malmuth predicted, where all the poor NLHE players go broke and limit games again reign supreme, hasn't happened yet.

FTR i love limit poker and certainly think it should be more sustainable. It would be interesting to interview losing NLHE players and see what (if anything) keeps them going back.

Noobs get fleeced easier because of the hidden outs in PLO. At least that's my guess, never really have tried to play or master the game.

I think the understanding of hand strengths preflop and which hands lead to reverse implied odds is way easier to understand for beginners of Holdem than PLO. Holdem players can learn really quick why the kicker plays. PLO beginners might not intuitively realize that one gappers with the gap at the top are worst than at the bottom and why hands with small runs or small pocket pairs are bad. They're good in Holdem right?

And unlike Holdem where you can fold until you get the big cards that hold up, you probably lose a lot more learning PLO because you don't have redraws to the nuts or all your draws are weak draws.

I'm not trying to talk down PLO believe me. I wish it was spread more for the same selfish reason everyone else that knows how to play wants it.

I just think limit was too boring for people and PLO breaks them too fast.