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Old 05-28-2010, 11:23 PM   #101
edwurtle
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

I made my first trip to Harrington Today, here's a quick list of stuff you might find interesting about it.

1. When I got there at 3pm, 4 tables were running (3 1/2, 1 2/5)

2. They didn't have enough dealers scheduled. Long waiting list until about 7pm when more dealers showed up and more tables opened. By the time I left 9pm, all 10 tables were running with at least one game running higher then 2/5nl and one 2/4 limit table running.

3. 10% rake up to $5. Max $200 buyin for 1/2 nl. Max $500 buyin for 2/5nl.

4. Dealers are pissed about the tip pooling.. tips are pooled with all dealers including pit games.

5. Waiting list was done via a "wondering clip board", however they managed to fill in empty seats quickly.

6. BBJ is dropped for every hand except chops and walks. Even if you just steal the blinds, $1 of your $3 pot is going into BBJ. ugh.

7. Food on menu is good. At least my $7 pull pork sandwich was good.

8. Dealers/Cage/Chip Runners were all slow and methodical, they all seemed scared of making small mistakes. Hopefully they will become faster in due time.

9. Live straddle is allowed, double/triple etc straddle is not allowed.

10. Many players knew each other from local charity games/ private rooms. However they didn't collude or soft play from what I saw.
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:30 AM   #102
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

Some of the Harrington dealers aren't bad but the majority of them are honestly a disgrace. I understand there's a learning curve/opening night jitters etc. but a couple of them tonight screwed something up on literally every hand during their downs (misdeals, incorrect counts, giving incorrect change, forgetting to make change altogether, on top of already being ridiculously slow, etc. etc.). There's really no excuse for the level of incompetence some of them display. I'm grateful to have a legal poker room nearby and the competition has definitely been fairly fishy but if the dealers don't get better in a hurry I'll be inclined to just stick to private games/online especially considering the high rake/BBJP drop. Pooling tips is 100% retarded because it gives the sucky dealers no incentive to improve.

Don't be intimidated by all the rednecks/broskis who know each other from the private games, btw. They're mostly typical live tagfish who think poker is all about making sick bluffs and slowplaying big hands.

Last edited by miajag; 05-29-2010 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:09 AM   #103
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwurtle View Post
I made my first trip to Harrington Today, here's a quick list of stuff you might find interesting about it.
Quote:
2. They didn't have enough dealers scheduled. Long waiting list until about 7pm when more dealers showed up and more tables opened. By the time I left 9pm, all 10 tables were running with at least one game running higher then 2/5nl and one 2/4 limit table running.
I am surprised limit games have not picked up there yet. With the casino having a older customer base, as well as an older population living in Sussex County, I expected there to be more low-limit action. I am wrong so far.

Quote:
4. Dealers are pissed about the tip pooling.. tips are pooled with all dealers including pit games.
Tip pooling sucks. I can not blame them for being upset at that.

Quote:
6. BBJ is dropped for every hand except chops and walks. Even if you just steal the blinds, $1 of your $3 pot is going into BBJ. ugh.
The moron that came up with that rule needs to be fired ASAP. There is absolutely no point in taking a BBJ drop 1) if there is no flop, 2) if the pot has not reached $x. Standard Atlantic City rule of once the pot reaches $20 (for most games) would work fine here.

Quote:
7. Food on menu is good. At least my $7 pull pork sandwich was good.
Food should be pretty good there, and the prices are reasonable. The food comes from the bar/restaurant in the simulast/sportsbook room across the hall. Many times I have gone there just to have dinner. I really like their chicken wings.

Quote:
8. Dealers/Cage/Chip Runners were all slow and methodical, they all seemed scared of making small mistakes. Hopefully they will become faster in due time.
This is just my opinion, but there is no need for chip runners in a room this small. The cage is like 50 feet from the furthest table. Have people make first buy-in at the cage and any re-buys can be done at the table.

-------------

Besides the rake and BBJ drop rule, I like what I have seen so far. However, based upon what others have posted, I expecting better from Delaware Park and Dover Downs, so I will have to see what they offer before I consider moving my play from Atlantic City to Delaware.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:33 AM   #104
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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Originally Posted by miajag View Post
Some of the Harrington dealers aren't bad but the majority of them are honestly a disgrace. I understand there's a learning curve/opening night jitters etc. but a couple of them tonight screwed something up on literally every hand during their downs (misdeals, incorrect counts, giving incorrect change, forgetting to make change altogether, on top of already being ridiculously slow, etc. etc.). There's really no excuse for the level of incompetence some of them display. I'm grateful to have a legal poker room nearby and the competition has definitely been fairly fishy but if the dealers don't get better in a hurry I'll be inclined to just stick to private games/online especially considering the high rake/BBJP drop. Pooling tips is 100% retarded because it gives the sucky dealers no incentive to improve.
I agree with you 100%. I honestly expected the dealer quality to be better then what I saw, both at the table games and in the poker room, especially from dealers just completed 80 hours of training. I would not worry about it too much right now though, as a majority of the dealers will get better as they obtain additional on the job experience, and eventually the strong will survive and the weak will be let go.

With Harrington being close to home and work, they could easily get 20 plus hours a week from me. However, with a higher rake and what I consider to be a ridiculous BBJ drop rule, it will probably less than 20 hours a year. I have to see what Delaware Park and Dover Downs offers before making a final decision on where to hang my hat.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:54 AM   #105
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

I'm still going to give Harrington Dealers a fare chance to improve. However I noticed many of them had the same exact flaws which were probably trained into them.

1. They all leaned way over and practically handed the cards to the players, which made the dealing very slow.

2. Their giving change strategy sucked:
the normal way: leave the $5 chip in front of player needing change, give $3 change to the player and then (almost simultaneously) pull in the $5 chip.

the harrington way: pull in all the money while attempting to memorize those who need change. Then say to self "crap, who needs change I forgot?". Managing change was by far their worst problem.

3. Many of them just had very slow math skills. One dealer took about 10 seconds to figure out $10-$6 = $4.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:57 AM   #106
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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Originally Posted by RDP3081 View Post
I am surprised limit games have not picked up there yet. With the casino having a older customer base, as well as an older population living in Sussex County, I expected there to be more low-limit action. I am wrong so far.
There could of been more when I left. I just overheard at least one 2/4 limit game. All I'm sure of is there was all 10 tables going at 9pm.
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Old 05-29-2010, 05:50 PM   #107
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

just got back from playing a few hours of 2/5. Lots of action. Dealers weren't terrible, could use improvement, but I can forgive that.

A couple issues that need to be addressed asap though
1) the seating method is an absolute mess. Its some dude wandering around with a clipboard. And it took him about 20 min to get the 2/5 table started because people kept trying to cajole him into letting them sit there.

2) The floor needs to be straight up about what games they are planning to spread. I went with the gf who only plays 2/4 LHE. They kept telling here they would open a table in 10-30 min. 2 hours later she finally talked to a different floor person who said they wouldn't have enough dealers for LHE until 7 PM.

3) The betting line is pretty close to the edge of the table. A lot of bets were counted out over the betting line. It wasn't an issue when I was playing, but with an inexperienced staff this gives someone a little too much of an opportunity to angleshoot.
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:06 PM   #108
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverfish1 View Post
just got back from playing a few hours of 2/5. Lots of action. Dealers weren't terrible, could use improvement, but I can forgive that.

A couple issues that need to be addressed asap though

Quote:
1) the seating method is an absolute mess. Its some dude wandering around with a clipboard. And it took him about 20 min to get the 2/5 table started because people kept trying to cajole him into letting them sit there.
They have a front podium with a television next to it for games and wait lists. When I was there Thursday, they were having problems getting it up and running. I understand with a new room issues will arise, but this is what the test run was for. They need to get it up and running so people who want to get on a list or see what games are running stay out of the table area (it is already a tight squeeze as is) trying to track down a suit with a clipboard.

Quote:
2) The floor needs to be straight up about what games they are planning to spread. I went with the gf who only plays 2/4 LHE. They kept telling here they would open a table in 10-30 min. 2 hours later she finally talked to a different floor person who said they wouldn't have enough dealers for LHE until 7 PM.
Horrible scheduling by whoever is in charge. The room only has 10 tables and it is opening weekend and a holiday weekend, and they did not schedule enough dealers? They should have had a full dealer rotation scheduled for the entire weekend. In these situations, it's better to over schedule then under schedule. I am sorry, but that is a huge management fail in my book.
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:15 PM   #109
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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Originally Posted by riverfish1 View Post
3) The betting line is pretty close to the edge of the table. A lot of bets were counted out over the betting line. It wasn't an issue when I was playing, but with an inexperienced staff this gives someone a little too much of an opportunity to angleshoot.
Info a got from dealer: The manufacturer screwed up the felt printing which makes it extremely tight for anyone sitting at the end of the tables. So supposedly dealers are suppose to be lenient about players at the end of the table. So basically the betting line doesn't apply to half the table, lovely situation. They might as well just ignore the betting line entirely.

My main beef against the room is the BBJ drop for every hand (except walks/chops) and the $5 rake. They change the BBJ rules and/or rake to $4 and I'll come play often.. otherwise I'll drive extra 10 minutes to delaware park.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:16 PM   #110
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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Originally Posted by RDP3081 View Post
This is just my opinion, but there is no need for chip runners in a room this small. The cage is like 50 feet from the furthest table. Have people make first buy-in at the cage and any re-buys can be done at the table.
Delaware Gaming rule is that no cash can play on the table. Chips only. So, the chip runners are going to be needed.

The question is, are the chip runners just the dealers who have it assigned into their rotation, or did Harrington hire staff to specifically chip run only.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:30 AM   #111
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

Any word of a tournament schedule?
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:46 AM   #112
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

I just played at Harrington this morning, Midnight to 3am. I'm not sure if I will return since the other DE casinos will be open soon and I can't imagine those will be run as badly.

Things that irked me the most (many were described in previous posts):
  1. Every dealer was slow and made mistakes.
  2. The "cage" was soooo slow and didn't know the buy-in rules.
  3. The host was not interested in helping players get into a game. And when one player plugged his cell phone charger into one the outlets along the wall, the host told him to take it out because "this isn't your house." I didn't see why it would be a big deal to the casino.
  4. They stop serving alcohol at 1am* so those players left soon after last call.
  5. The lighting was bad and I had a hard time seeing the suites of my cards.

In response to the previous poster's question regarding tourneys, I doubt they have the space to run any. The room was just too small.

* this applies to all DE casinos.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:30 PM   #113
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

In addition to last call being 1:00AM, alcoholic beverages are not complementary while playing like in Atlantic City. Be prepared to pay $3-$4 for each bottle of beer and $5-6 for each mixed drink. I wonder if the casino will try and petition the State to allow serving complementary alcohol to players, or if they believe they will make out better just charging customers.
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:14 PM   #114
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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Originally Posted by UGotTheTouch View Post
Delaware Gaming rule is that no cash can play on the table. Chips only. So, the chip runners are going to be needed.

The question is, are the chip runners just the dealers who have it assigned into their rotation, or did Harrington hire staff to specifically chip run only.
I understand "no cash can play".. however why can't the dealer still give chips to those that rebuy (between hands), perhaps I don't understand the 'cash cannot play' law. Even if they can't give chips for cash, a player should be capable of walking to the cage to buy more chips themselves while reserving the seat. To me it feels like an excuse to have another job in which players might feel obligated to tip.

As far as your question, from what I saw the chip runners were separate from dealers.. ie chip runners did not deal, dealers did not run chips.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:06 PM   #115
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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Originally Posted by RDP3081 View Post
In addition to last call being 1:00AM, alcoholic beverages are not complementary while playing like in Atlantic City. Be prepared to pay $3-$4 for each bottle of beer and $5-6 for each mixed drink. I wonder if the casino will try and petition the State to allow serving complementary alcohol to players, or if they believe they will make out better just charging customers.
Don't expect this to change anytime soon. The Delaware liquor board is as fossilized as you can get. It only took a $300M budget shortfall to get the blue laws repealed a few years back, pre Great Recession, natch.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:40 PM   #116
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

Quote:
In response to the previous poster's question regarding tourneys, I doubt they have the space to run any. The room was just too small

I might be wrong but I thought I had heard they were going to do some expansion? I plan to go over and give them a try in the next week or two, hopefully they work some of the dealer kinks out
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:48 PM   #117
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

One of the dealers mentioned they were considering holding tournaments in a separate room elsewhere in the casino.
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:16 AM   #118
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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Originally Posted by edwurtle View Post
I understand "no cash can play".. however why can't the dealer still give chips to those that rebuy (between hands), perhaps I don't understand the 'cash cannot play' law. Even if they can't give chips for cash, a player should be capable of walking to the cage to buy more chips themselves while reserving the seat. To me it feels like an excuse to have another job in which players might feel obligated to tip.
Players are lazy/don't want to get up/whathaveyou, and don't want to get chips themselves. Trust me, I've seen the situation waaaaaaaaay too many times where a player will wait for a runner to get them chips when doing the deed themselves would go infinitely quicker. It's not an excuse, it's a convenience.

As for "cash can't play", Delaware Gaming won't allow a player to, say, go bust, pull out three $100 bills for the next hand, put it in, lose, and ship the 3 bills to the winner. Not allowed. That $300 has to be converted to chips. The player, however, can say he's $300 behind, and while the cash is getting changed into chips, lose that $300 in chips in the next hand, then have the chips shipped to the winner.

While I'm at it with goofy DE semantics I've learned of, it is also prohibited, in a rake game, for a player to to be dealt into a hand if they aren't at the table, otherwise its a misdeal. i.e. a player can't run over to another table real quick while saying "deal me in" and get dealt in. That player will get skipped if he's not physically at the table (in a raked game, doesn't apply to time games).

Does Harrington have it setup where dealers have a huge bank in front of them like AC or where there's $400-$500 in the rack like in Vegas?
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:24 AM   #119
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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Not trying to take the thread off-topic, but to me, it seems like Delaware Park is going to be the room with the most games, most limits, and the higher limit games. I can not help but think Harrington is not going to have anything other than 1/2NL, 2/4 LHE, and 1/5 stud. What does anyone else think?
I went to Harrington on May 30th. They only had 4 tables and they were all no limit . I was told many of the dealers quit due to pooling tips. I thought this would have been worked out and settled beforehand. I was told many of the dealers quit.

I am encouraged that they did have a sheet with Omaha Hi-lo and other games. They should have an electronic board showing the games they will offer. It will take work on the part of management and players who want to play other games if this room is to work out. I liked the place and it less than 2 hours from DC. That being said, I don't plan to go back there unitl the room gets more organized. Next stop Delaware Park or AC.
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:09 AM   #120
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

rack is small, maybe $400 tops. You can't rebuy at the table like in AC. I'm waiting for Charlestown to open up, as this is farther away and probably not as good.
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:48 PM   #121
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

Went the first day. Pretty much agree with what everyone is saying. I have to say that without exception, though, the staff, while pretty green, was very nice.

The thing that irked me the most was the $5 + $1 rake. And the $1 rake, taken even if there isn't a flop, doesn't go entirely to the BB jackpot, but for "promotions". This didn't seem right to me. I mean, "promotions" by definition are funded by the house, not the players, right? But the manager on-duty (apparently the full-time manager hadn't gotten his license yet) assured me that this was standard for all poker rooms with promotions, so maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, he also told me that he was going to try to convince them to eliminate the BB/promotional rake from the $2/$5 NL game. Until that happens, it's a deal breaker for me. I'll wait for Dover to open.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:32 PM   #122
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

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And the $1 rake, taken even if there isn't a flop, doesn't go entirely to the BB jackpot, but for "promotions". This didn't seem right to me. I mean, "promotions" by definition are funded by the house, not the players, right? But the manager on-duty (apparently the full-time manager hadn't gotten his license yet) assured me that this was standard for all poker rooms with promotions, so maybe I'm wrong.
With no surprise, this manager does not know what they are talking about. BBJ rules depend on the gaming rules established by the state or jurisdiction. For example, in Atlantic City, 100% of the BBJ drop must be returned to the customers through the BBJ. Any promotions the casinos hold are funded by the casino through the rake collected or advertising budgets.

Some allow for the casino to keep a percentage of the BBJ drop for "administrative expenses". "Administrative expenses" tends to be vague and can vary from the house keeping the percentage to cover expenses such as advertising, or can be used toward high hand of the day contests, freeroll purses, drawings, etc.
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Old 05-31-2010, 02:24 PM   #123
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

I was there Friday night. The room was nuts, and my only complaint was they didn't have a brush or whatever the guy who seats people is called. Other than that, I know there is kinks to be worked out; you can expect the room to run like AC; AC's had poker since 1993. Harrington's had poker for four days.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:16 PM   #124
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

I agree, and it goes without saying that I certainly wasn't expecting the room to be run as smoothly as the Borgata. Even with low expectations though, I was still shocked at how badly/cluelessly the room is staffed and run. I hope it improves.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:00 PM   #125
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Re: Delaware Park Poker Room News

I think poker was an afterthought that was rushed into production while the other games may have been better thought out. After all, the money is in craps, blackjack, roulette, and carnival games. Here's to hoping the other Delaware casinos learn from Harrington's mistakes prior to opening.
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