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10-08-2016 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlySloth
Hi I'm thinking of playing live for the first time and was looking for some advice. I was thinking of playing 1/3 since the 1/2 structure doesn't seem good. What is the competition at 1/3 like? How good are the good players?
Hello SlySloth! I hope you find my thoughts helpful!
The $1/$2 structure at Crown is... poor, to put it very politely. However, if you're playing live for the first time, playing a $1/$2 session to start with could be an effective way to break into live play and develop an initial feel for Crown's live dynamic. It really depends on how comfortable you expect you'll feel when playing your first live session.
The only thing worse than the $1/$2 structure at Crown is the quality of play at $1/$2 and $1/$3. Unlike Crown's $1/$2 structure, however, this works exceptionally well in our favour! The majority of players at $1/$2 and $1/$3 are passive fish, especially on weekend nights. If you're comfortably beating micro stakes online, profitable strategy there should transfer fairly well to live $1/$2 and $1/$3. Most of your money will be made nut-pedalling, so I recommend taking a tight approach to the tables to begin with until you're feeling comfortable with the live environment. Also, your bankroll will determine just how many thin edges you can seek. I would recommend at least ten buyins for $1/$3 using a tight approach, and even that's rather aggressive. (That said, I've got by with less the past two years, but I think I've been pretty lucky not to bust. I only play semi-regularly due to my "bankroll" being so shallow though.) Now, as for how good the good players are... well, good players at $1/$3 are rare at best, and even then, the players that I talk to that I consider decent can still have some surprising misconceptions about poker. In any case, I'm confident you'd quickly identify any good players present at your table, because they'd stand out prominently amongst the fish surrounding them.
I hope you found my thoughts helpful. Feel free to ask any further questions you like.
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10-09-2016 , 03:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlySloth
Hi I'm thinking of playing live for the first time and was looking for some advice. I was thinking of playing 1/3 since the 1/2 structure doesn't seem good. What is the competition at 1/3 like? How good are the good players?
I'm a reg at 1/3. The games are very soft. There are a lot of passive fish that will limp/call a $20 raise with hands like Q9s and K8o. Expect a lot of multiway pots and expect very few 3bets preflop. A 3bet is almost always {JJ+, AK}, so don't expect any fold equity when you 4bet shove over a 3bet. Cbetting flops works well when you have the initiative. As for barreling, try to be very value-oriented, rather than bluff-oriented. You should assume that the average player at 1/3 will never fold top pair no matter what. Punish them by going for 3 big streets of value everytime you have TPTK or an overpair (eg. $20 preflop, $30 on flop, $75 on turn, $150 on river... watch them call you down with something like QT on a Qxxxx board when you have AQ).

Even the best players you will encounter at 1/3 have some huge imbalances that you can exploit. Some of the regs play the "lookup artist" game: they float you on the flop just to see how you react on the turn. Some regs play the "bet when you miss, check when you hit" game where they check the flop when they hit and Cbet the flop when they miss. A few play the "limp/raise monsters from early position game". You can just fold whenever you see them limp/raise UTG because it's almost always QQ+. There are a few "old man coffee" nits amongst the crowd too. If you can beat these types of players, then you'll crush 1/3 at Crown, because it honestly doesn't get any tougher than this.

Most players have a very basic understanding of position, but do way too much calling from the blinds. Don't expect people to fold to your steals very often, but don't expect people to resteal either... they just flat-call a lot.

Typically, I like to raise to 5x + (x per limper) because otherwise you end up playing too many multiway pots, although there are times when I'll make a big raise like $20 and still get 5 callers, so sometimes MW pots are inevitable.

1/2 is slightly softer than 1/3, but way less profitable, due to a max buyin of 50bbs (as opposed to 100bbs at 1/3) and a rake cap of $20 (as opposed to $15 rake cap at 1/3). So I'd recommend you just stick to 1/3. If you have the bankroll, the 2/5 games are quite soft too and they run very frequently as well.

Good luck!
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10-09-2016 , 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
I'm a reg at 1/3. The games are very soft. There are a lot of passive fish that will limp/call a $20 raise with hands like Q9s and K8o. Expect a lot of multiway pots and expect very few 3bets preflop. A 3bet is almost always {JJ+, AK}, so don't expect any fold equity when you 4bet shove over a 3bet. Cbetting flops works well when you have the initiative. As for barreling, try to be very value-oriented, rather than bluff-oriented. You should assume that the average player at 1/3 will never fold top pair no matter what. Punish them by going for 3 big streets of value everytime you have TPTK or an overpair (eg. $20 preflop, $30 on flop, $75 on turn, $150 on river... watch them call you down with something like QT on a Qxxxx board when you have AQ).

Even the best players you will encounter at 1/3 have some huge imbalances that you can exploit. Some of the regs play the "lookup artist" game: they float you on the flop just to see how you react on the turn. Some regs play the "bet when you miss, check when you hit" game where they check the flop when they hit and Cbet the flop when they miss. A few play the "limp/raise monsters from early position game". You can just fold whenever you see them limp/raise UTG because it's almost always QQ+. There are a few "old man coffee" nits amongst the crowd too. If you can beat these types of players, then you'll crush 1/3 at Crown, because it honestly doesn't get any tougher than this.

Most players have a very basic understanding of position, but do way too much calling from the blinds. Don't expect people to fold to your steals very often, but don't expect people to resteal either... they just flat-call a lot.

Typically, I like to raise to 5x + (x per limper) because otherwise you end up playing too many multiway pots, although there are times when I'll make a big raise like $20 and still get 5 callers, so sometimes MW pots are inevitable.

1/2 is slightly softer than 1/3, but way less profitable, due to a max buyin of 50bbs (as opposed to 100bbs at 1/3) and a rake cap of $20 (as opposed to $15 rake cap at 1/3). So I'd recommend you just stick to 1/3. If you have the bankroll, the 2/5 games are quite soft too and they run very frequently as well.

Good luck!
Well, that was comprehensive 6bet! Very nice post! While on the subject of strategy, I'll offer a couple of my own tactics for readers to consider.
Regarding multi-way pots, they should generally be welcomed if we make certain considerations. Firstly, if we (correctly) assume that chips tend to flow towards the button, then if we're in late position we want to play against as many players as possible. (Conversely, if we're out of position, we want to play against as few players as possible.) Secondly, if we're raising with a strong value hand, we want as many players to call with weaker hands as possible. (Well, that's not precisely true, due to diminishing returns and pot odds after about five callers if you have, say, Pocket Aces, but I'll spare everyone the maths and leave my original statement as a guideline.) Not only does this generate extra value, but it reduces the SPR, which is typically favourable with strong preflop value hands. Similarly, if we have drawing hands (say, small pocket pairs), the more callers we have, the better our pot odds to draw. So don't fear multi-way pots - embrace them! Sure, you'll win them less frequently than heads-up pots, but when you do win them, the payout will be substantially better.
Regarding preflop raise sizes, in my rather limited experience, opponents tend to be rather elastic in their continuance ranges. It's not unusual for me to see about four callers if I raise to $20 UTG, but watch everyone fold to my $25 BUT raise even if every player before me has limped in. $1/$3 play is often pretty strange like that...
Anyway, that's my 2c about some aspects of the play I implement at $1/$3. I hope you find them helpful.
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10-13-2016 , 08:15 AM
Anyone know if the 5/5 games run 24/7? If so how many tables?

Also is anyone able to work out rake paid per hour at 2/5 vs 1/3 vs 5/5 roughly?
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10-13-2016 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
Anyone know if the 5/5 games run 24/7? If so how many tables?
No they do not. The 5/5 games do not get nearly as much action as the 1/2, 1/3 and 2/5 games get. There is rarely more than 1 table of 5/5 open at a time.

On a standard Thursday night you might find roughly:
7 tables of 1/2
10 tables of 1/3
6 tables of 2/5
1 table of 5/5
1 table of 5/10/20
Then a few tables of other stuff like PLO and Fixed Limit Omaha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
Also is anyone able to work out rake paid per hour at 2/5 vs 1/3 vs 5/5 roughly?
I could give you a rough estimate:
All of 1/3, 2/5 and 5/5 have 10% rake capped at $15. I'll say that 1/3 gets 40 hands per hour (due to its turbo format) but 2/5 and 5/5 only get 30 hands per hour.
Average rake per pot at 1/3 is probably $5. This makes $200/hour
Average rake per pot at 2/5 is probably $10. This makes $300/hour
Average rake per pot at 5/5 is probably $12. This makes $360/hour
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10-13-2016 , 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
No they do not. The 5/5 games do not get nearly as much action as the 1/2, 1/3 and 2/5 games get. There is rarely more than 1 table of 5/5 open at a time.

On a standard Thursday night you might find roughly:
7 tables of 1/2
10 tables of 1/3
6 tables of 2/5
1 table of 5/5
1 table of 5/10/20
Then a few tables of other stuff like PLO and Fixed Limit Omaha.



I could give you a rough estimate:
All of 1/3, 2/5 and 5/5 have 10% rake capped at $15. I'll say that 1/3 gets 40 hands per hour (due to its turbo format) but 2/5 and 5/5 only get 30 hands per hour.
Average rake per pot at 1/3 is probably $5. This makes $200/hour
Average rake per pot at 2/5 is probably $10. This makes $300/hour
Average rake per pot at 5/5 is probably $12. This makes $360/hour
Cheers mate. Just wondering whether the rake here is as bad as people say it is. It's still $5 to sit down/swap tables right?
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10-15-2016 , 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
Cheers mate. Just wondering whether the rake here is as bad as people say it is. It's still $5 to sit down/swap tables right?
Yeah you pay a $5 seating charge every time you sit at a new table
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10-15-2016 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
I'm a reg at 1/3.
Whats your winrate and what type of winrates are attainable?
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10-16-2016 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlySloth
Whats your winrate and what type of winrates are attainable?
To be perfectly honest, I have very little idea what my true win rate is.

Over a sample size of about 150 hours at 1/3, I'm about $3k up, which would make my sample win rate $20/hr. This is a very small sample size though, since I have had swings of up to $1500 per session, so you can't really draw any conclusions.

I would estimate that a win rate of $30/hr is attainable at 1/3, but that's nothing more than an educated guess.

When you take into account the fact that we don't tip in Australia, I'd actually argue that the "real" rake here is no worse than it is in Vegas. Having 10% rake here is no worse than having a 5% rake but an obligation to tip $1-$3 every pot you win.
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10-16-2016 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
When you take into account the fact that we don't tip in Australia, I'd actually argue that the "real" rake here is no worse than it is in Vegas. Having 10% rake here is no worse than having a 5% rake but an obligation to tip $1-$3 every pot you win.
I'd much rather pay $1 as a tip than pay 10% capped at 15 and a $5 seating fee.
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10-17-2016 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
I'd much rather pay $1 as a tip than pay 10% capped at 15 and a $5 seating fee.
This is true, but we make up for it with an insane amount of fish
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10-17-2016 , 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmm...Bacon
This is true, but we make up for it with an insane amount of fish
I think the fish count is pretty similar globally. I think the rake at 2/5 makes the game pretty unappealing to be playing for a lot of hours.

Is there still a royal jackpot at Crown Poker?
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10-17-2016 , 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
I think the fish count is pretty similar globally. I think the rake at 2/5 makes the game pretty unappealing to be playing for a lot of hours.

Is there still a royal jackpot at Crown Poker?
Yeah maybe... I've played in a few casinos in Europe and games seemed better here for sure. Yeah still have the jackpot, met a guy who has won it twice
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10-17-2016 , 08:11 AM
So I'm guessing $1 from each raked pot goes toward that? Makes things a little more pleasant at least.
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10-19-2016 , 08:02 AM
Hi! Im going to Melbourne in December/January for a couple weeks. I would like to know how is the action around that time? Im planning to play 2-5 mostly. Are the tables 9 or 10 handed?
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10-19-2016 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nootilt
Hi! Im going to Melbourne in December/January for a couple weeks. I would like to know how is the action around that time? Im planning to play 2-5 mostly. Are the tables 9 or 10 handed?
Hi nootilt! I expect you'll find the $2/$5 cash game action soft and plentiful during your trip to Melbourne, especially if you're playing during the Aussie Millions. All cash games at Crown are nine-handed, with only tournaments seating ten players at each table. If there's anything else you'd like to know, please ask!
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10-19-2016 , 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee4
Hi nootilt! I expect you'll find the $2/$5 cash game action soft and plentiful during your trip to Melbourne, especially if you're playing during the Aussie Millions. All cash games at Crown are nine-handed, with only tournaments seating ten players at each table. If there's anything else you'd like to know, please ask!
Thanks for the info!!
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10-22-2016 , 10:17 AM
what do you guys think of the jumbo index cards they use? i can peak a little bit at the cards too see the number but I need to lift up like half the card to see the suit. i feel people standing behind me on the rail would be able to see my cards.
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10-23-2016 , 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee4
Hi nootilt! I expect you'll find the $2/$5 cash game action soft and plentiful during your trip to Melbourne, especially if you're playing during the Aussie Millions. All cash games at Crown are nine-handed, with only tournaments seating ten players at each table. If there's anything else you'd like to know, please ask!
Is there a rake preflop?
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10-23-2016 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan1352
what do you guys think of the jumbo index cards they use? i can peak a little bit at the cards too see the number but I need to lift up like half the card to see the suit. i feel people standing behind me on the rail would be able to see my cards.
It appears I'm not the only Jordan that plays at Crown! I personally don't like them very much, as I do think it's harder to conceal one's holding, but I can appreciate that players with less keen eyesight than myself would find them preferable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nootilt
Is there a rake preflop?
Unfortunately there is... :/ I actually elicited surprise at this to a dealer a few months ago, as a preflop raise of mine once won the $2/$5 blinds in a session in July, but I only won $6. The dealer claimed this wasn't a recent change, but I couldn't remember it happening prior. I'll give the dealer the benefit of the doubt this time though.
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10-23-2016 , 11:24 PM
Yeah at Treasury at least there needs to be $20 in the pot before it's raked preflop. I was under the impression that Crown was no flop no drop but guess I was wrong.
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10-28-2016 , 10:41 AM
Any of you guys saw the $1/$3/$6/$12/$24/$48 game that happened on Wednesday night? It started off a regular 1/3 game and gradually became more and more degenerate. Here is a pic taken just after midnight (faced blurred out for privacy):

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10-28-2016 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Any of you guys saw the $1/$3/$6/$12/$24/$48 game that happened on Wednesday night? It started off a regular 1/3 game and gradually became more and more degenerate. Here is a pic taken just after midnight (faced blurred out for privacy):

wow that looks crazy, crown must have been happy with the amount of rake they were getting
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10-30-2016 , 06:42 AM
Do they allow straddles down there? Or is this just people spacking out preflop?
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10-30-2016 , 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
Do they allow straddles down there? Or is this just people spacking out preflop?
No straddle. Just preflop dono's
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