GOLD

I donno. I feel like there are a lot of very good players who come rolling in during the tourneys, and don't even play tourneys at all, or if they do very few. All else being equal, I am glad when they leave town, and feel the games are better without them.

Although, you bring up a point that they might not be beating these games because they have not adjusted to the higher aggression of the LA "fish" compared to wherever they come from.

Can anyone post rake structure please?

I would guess 100/200 limit and 20/40 NL is the cutoff where that would be allowed, assuming the player is a fish, meaning if he was playing under 100/200 he would be kicked out, and above he wouldn't.

Also, if he greases the right palms regularly (extremely unlikely for a blue chip player) even if kicked out he would be allowed back in the next day.

I feel like this is one of those "If you need to ask it is too high for you" scenarios. Anyways, all yellow chip games $6/hand counting jackpot, and it goes down a little with under 6 players, but not by much.

Oh man that YouTube link is the nuts

One of my favorite "kicked out of commerce" stories occurred during the short time when they had the 8/16 limit games in the top section. Suddenly this huge argument breaks out at one of the tables in that part of the room. Floormen called, etc., etc. Long discussion ensues. Then SECURITY is called. Longer discussion ensues, and someone is escorted out of the room rather forcefully by security. Meanwhile, they take all sorts of cell phone photos of the guy's chip stack, and bag up the chips like they do at the end of the day in a big tournament.

I ask around and find out that what happened is that the guy announced he had $200 behind, either after sitting down or after busting out, and said that the chip runner was coming with his chips. He was dealt in and won a couple of fairly big pots soon thereafter, played with the chips he had won, and it took awhile before one of his opponents realized that he never received the $200 that he had announced was behind. Apparently, it first was raised as "hey, that chip runner never came back with your chips", but the players soon realized that there might be a scam going on and when it was determined that none of the chip runners had taken this guy's $200, the game was stopped and surveillance tapes were reviewed.

So the guy had played with the house's money (and his opponents', from those first couple of pots) for a fair amount of time before getting caught. Nice work if you can get it. He was apparently (and appropriately) barred.

Shouldn't the dealers ask how much the person is playing behind, after the money is given to the chip runner?

Yes this is shocking to me since all of the dealers at Commerce are so competent and professional

How competent would you be at your job if you had to worry about cards being thrown at your face, verbal abuse, and threats of physical violence at every moment?

In fairness to the dealer, in the high limit games players, especially fish regs, are routinely allowed to declare behind and then play with imaginary chips. If they win they never have to come up with the money they declared behind (at least until they are felted again), and if they lose they will normally borrow money from another player at the table or call a chiprunner to get the money off their marker.

If a dealer actually stopped the game to wait for the player to come up with the money they would be berated by all the players at the table and the floor man.

It really is a no win situation for the dealers, as there are many cases like this where they will be abused and berated for actually following the rules. It would take a very intelligent, perceptive dealer to be able to discern when it is correct etiquette for them to not follow the rules, and most people that are that intelligent do not work for minimum wage + tips.

This is why the rule should be (IMO) that no one is allowed to "play behind". Too often it results in too much confusion for everyone. It is now allowed in Atlantic City and no one is the worse for it as far as I can tell.

My considerations so far (ranked):

4/8 Stud @ Commerce
4/8 O8 @ Commerce
2/3 NLHE @ Bike
100NL @ Commerce

If 2/4 Stud @ Bike ran often, I would play there. But tables hardly ever run as opposed to 1/2 Stud. The problem is that 1/2 Stud has a terrible structure.

40NL @ the Commerce is an option I guess, it's just that my shortstack experience isn't spectacular and the rake is atrocious. Also, I have yet to see anyone on 2p2 say the game is beatable long term. Does 60NL @ the Bike make a world of difference (beating able to buy in for 30bb instead of 20bb and being able to reload for 30bb at the Commerce)?

Can anyone compare 2/3 NLHE @ the Bike to 1/2,1/3 @ Vegas (softer rooms, not Aria, Bellagio, Venitian)?

Maybe Hustler and Hollywood Park have better options for my roll? Idk, I haven't been there. I'm not willing to go to Hawaiian Gardens.

Sorry for the wall of questions, it's just that it's a big decision for me and I wanna get as much info as possible. I can't afford to blow this roll.

I don't think there are any 'softer' rooms anymore in Vegas. I've been playing some low stakes NL as an experiment this last week, and it seems to be luck of the draw/timing if a game's decent these days, even at the 1-2/1-3 stakes. Too many times I've seen it be a one-two limp, fold to raise sort of game that is not worth playing. (rooms I've tried - Rio, GVR, Orleans, TI)

Just wanted to say the rooms you tried are total garbage for finding a good game consistently. My recommendations are Harrah's, PH, Mirage and for a bigger 1/3 game Caesars (basically a small 2/5 game most of the time)

i was recently at the commerce, with an $800 roll i couldnt afford to blow (being homeless and without any type of income). within 2 weeks of being there, sleeping at the spa daily for $35 day pass, id ran the $800 into $1600 and once was up to $1881 at the maximum. and i played pretty much nothing but $40 NL. never played a higher NL (didnt feel i had the roll for it) and also played very little stud or omaha8 (when if id have a much better bankroll, id have played a lot of stud or omaha8 at the $4-8 levels, simply because i enjoy those games more). so all of those games on ur list are beatable, but for a small roll, id definitely recommend $40 NL and avoiding the stud and the omaha. its so easy to go thru $100-200 very fast in omaha8 without ever getting a pot due to all the $8-16 kills in the $4-8. take the shuttle bus to pechanga, their omaha game (and their promotions) are much better, its $3-6 instead of $4-8 so ur roll goes alot further. i think the rake is actually less in the $40 NL. its 3.50 plus 50c jackpot, i think the other games its more. im sure its beatable long term. i made a horrible mistake leaving cali, now im down to less than $700. shouldve stayed and id be in far better shape now. But i was feeling sick and wanted to be where i could get very cheap rooms back in NV.

im not sure the rake is beatable in 2-4 stud, and i dont know whats difference about the structure in 2-4 than 1-2, unless u are referring to a lot higher rake.

what do you think would be a fair est on how much you could make playing 4/8 O8 at Commerce in a month 40 hours a week (160 hours a month) in $ dollars

just saying you might not be the best but can play the game, say if ur little better than avg/competent etc

id say $12 an hour, but it shouldnt be attempted without a bankroll of $3200 or more.

Since it is just opinions and speculative, I'd like a quick thought on the same thing for 100NL. What couple be made an hour like the post above? What BR?

Negative something. Rake will eat you alive in either game. Both are purely recreational.

but what if you need to play the 4/8 hi lo to get a BR to play higher with say a $3,500 to $4k roll ? do you think its doable to build your BR in that game etc

Playing poker seriously is like starting up a business. You have to have the right startup capital. Unfortunately these days, you can't really start at the bottom level because the rake is just too high. (and really, if you read all these bios of these 'pros' who played way back when, they were playing in mostly private games when they played small - with no rake) Online was the solution, maybe it will be again once it spreads beyond Nevada.

If you're always flipping your $100 head's up against someone and the rake is taken out, it's just not good - let's say you've always got high pair vs AK. Each time you're expecting to win just $8 because the blinds got eaten by the $6 in rake. Now factor in the times you have AK, and even if most of the time you're not on that side, it's still going to reduce that $8 to $5 at least. (and I'm assuming you will have AA vs KK and KK vs AA, so those top pair vs top pair type hands do even out over time - you wouldn't be ever folding KK or even QQ with a short buy-in)

So yeah, maybe the one guy did win $10k in a month if he was getting good cards, running well, and had the opponents in place to put it in every time (or maybe he played poorly preflop but flopped big draws/hands multiway each time - it happens). But the expectation on average is not so good.

eco74 dont know much about how to win at poker if he believes this. im living proof that a ton of sessions of $40 NL hitting and running at the commerce, is a good way to grow a small roll. Rake is very beatable, i easily turned $800 into over $1600 within about 10 days.

I'm so not convinced of this. Play is so bad, there has to be a way to have an edge. Plus, if you can't beat 100NL, how are you ever to get enough money and practice to move up? What limit IS beatable?

Ya
$80 a day
Good for u


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