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Old 08-22-2011, 11:54 PM   #1
PdPG
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Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

Let's discuss Colorado poker - Black Hawk, Central City, and Cripple Creek.
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Old 08-22-2011, 11:58 PM   #2
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Let's discuss Colorado poker - Black Hawk, Central City, and Cripple Creek.
Excellent. This was a good move.

Anyone place in the Colorado Poker Championship Main Event?

Last edited by juanez; 08-23-2011 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:06 AM   #3
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

I've seen and read some of the Colorado Poker Thread in the main B&M Forum. I know that new limits allow $500 bets, which makes for normal LHE games up to very high stakes. I also know that it looks like the biggest regular game in the area is 30/60 LHE.

What I'm most curious about is how far apart these casinos are and what else there is to do around them. To put things into perspective, I've spent the majority of my live poker "career" in Atlantic City, where five of the seven poker rooms are literally walking distance along a 1.5-mile stretch of boardwalk. I've also played in Vienna, Austria, where my two favorite rooms are about a 20-minute walk from each other.

Would someone who has been to both places consider the poker region of Colorado similar to Atlantic City in terms of table games, poker, restaurants, and a thing or two to do other than gambling (e.g., in AC, the beach)?
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:15 AM   #4
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Originally Posted by Rapini View Post
I've seen and read some of the Colorado Poker Thread in the main B&M Forum. I know that new limits allow $500 bets, which makes for normal LHE games up to very high stakes. I also know that it looks like the biggest regular game in the area is 30/60 LHE.

What I'm most curious about is how far apart these casinos are and what else there is to do around them. To put things into perspective, I've spent the majority of my live poker "career" in Atlantic City, where five of the seven poker rooms are literally walking distance along a 1.5-mile stretch of boardwalk. I've also played in Vienna, Austria, where my two favorite rooms are about a 20-minute walk from each other.

Would someone who has been to both places consider the poker region of Colorado similar to Atlantic City in terms of table games, poker, restaurants, and a thing or two to do other than gambling (e.g., in AC, the beach)?
The betting is actually capped at $100. 30/60 is the biggest well-established limit in town (with a kill up to 50/100), but 50/100 seems to be getting going regularly now as well. Strangely enough, 4/8 is the next highest regular LHE game in town at the moment, although we're hoping to remedy that (10/20 used to run somewhat regularly for a little while). The most popular game is 2-100 spread-limit, with the bigger version of that being 2/5-100.

The gambling towns are all old mining towns with all the casinos within walking distance (essentially a big main street lined with casinos). They have full-featured casinos with table games, craps, roulette, and slots, as well as hotel/restaurant, etc. There's really nothing else to do right in town, but they are right up in the mountains, so there's mountain-type stuff all around (biking, hiking, skiing, rafting, etc.). From Black Hawk and Central City, Denver is about 30-45 minutes away, maybe a bit more, depending on where exactly you're going. Cripple Creek is something like 45 minutes to an hour away from Colorado Springs.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:18 AM   #5
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

Thanks! Sounds like it might be worth a visit someday, especially if I ever learn to ski.

Uncanny that that 4/8 to 30/60 jump is very similar to what you'd find in AC. In AC you have about a million 2/4 games, a handful of 3/6 games, one 4/8 game, and the next one up is 10/20.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanez View Post
Excellent. This was a good move.

Anyone place in the Colorado Poker Championship Main Event?
I played it and it was great didn't place but
Rodney and the gang did a great job this time
Around. Structure was great, I ran into like
One other 2+2er but he was mainly a live
Player.
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:51 AM   #7
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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I played it and it was great didn't place but
Rodney and the gang did a great job this time
Around. Structure was great, I ran into like
One other 2+2er but he was mainly a live
Player.
I also played. Came in 30th place -- boo -- when my UTG open-ended str8 draw all-in semi-bluff reraise on the flop (with around 180,000 in chips) got called by AA and I -- of course -- did not make the straight. Was hoping the AA (I knew he had that or KK) would fold. I would not have gone all-in if I didn't think he was capable of folding an overpair on the flop to an all-in reraise.

Great tournament. Run very well. Loved the 60 minutes rounds. The competition, however, was the toughest I have ever encountered in a tournament before. Way way way different from the lower buy-in tournies at the Gates.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:46 AM   #8
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

Lol is that u Peter?^^^^
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:50 AM   #9
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Lol is that u Peter?^^^^
Yep ... and who might you be, lilman2636? You obviously must have been at that table when I went up in smoke :=) Table 7, I believe. BTW, I haven't seen the final results, but I stopped back around 11pm, and the guy (very nice fellow) who busted me was in the last eight standing. The tourney was on break, so I didn't know his chip count at the time.
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:53 AM   #10
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Yep ... and who might you be, lilman2636? You obviously must have been at that table when I went up in smoke :=) Table 7, I believe. BTW, I haven't seen the final results, but I stopped back around 11pm, and the guy (very nice fellow) who busted me was in the last eight standing. The tourney was on break, so I didn't know his chip count at the time.
Or are you Claudio? Lol.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:47 PM   #11
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

lol Claudio
haha good to find ya on here
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:22 PM   #12
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)


I call green!
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:10 PM   #13
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Anyone place in the Colorado Poker Championship Main Event?
25th in the M.E., but took down 2 of the smaller ones and got second place for player of the series ($3k bonus). The series was a blast and the tournies had great structures. The PLO high tourney had a great turnout and everyone raved about how much fun this one was.

Recommendations for future CPCs:
Add a HORSE or 7-game event, maybe $350, expect 50 runners.
Give main event double points towards player of the series, not triple. Many are grinding most events and don't want someone luckboxing the ME and getting player of the series.
All of the bigger buyin holdem/ deeper stack events should have antes, not just the M.E.
Hire more dealers so they stay fresh and happy.

Overall, this was a great event and a series like this has been overdue in Colorado. Well played Golden Gates!
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:23 PM   #14
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

Def need a 6max as well ..ill talk to Rodney
N the gang about all 2+2 recommendations
as well as everyone else on here should do the
Same.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:00 PM   #15
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

So I won't get an infraction for trolling if I post in this thread complaining about the nasty restroom near the buffet at Ameristar?

YES!


Ameristar had a little green chip game going saturday evening which eventually broke 3 handed at 10AM sunday morning. good times
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:19 PM   #16
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Ameristar had a little green chip game going saturday evening which eventually broke 3 handed at 10AM sunday morning. good times
Is that 50-100 game? I was there playing 2-5 game till about 6pm. Room was packed. Also 3 30-60 tables where going strong. Suprised not to see Chase.
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:35 PM   #17
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

yeah, and I said it was a green chip game but the cage didn't have enough green for the buy-ins and a lot of players still insisted on using red chips if they had them for every bet. That was annoying.

There were 3 30/60's and one 30/60 must move. Once the must move broke they started the 50/100 which was close to not going because people don't want to play SH. We started 5 handed and in two orbits had 8 players.

Serious fun and by that I mean the people who are usually fun got all serious until they got used to the stakes.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:41 PM   #18
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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yeah, and I said it was a green chip game but the cage didn't have enough green for the buy-ins and a lot of players still insisted on using red chips if they had them for every bet. That was annoying.
.
Still wonder how much did asian guy have in all those green chips at table 3, seat~6.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:09 AM   #19
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

Dude had about 6k in the 30/60 game which is the table and seat your talking about. He brought it to the 50 game and he was one of the other players still playing when it finally broke. Dude was on a marathon session of like 40 hrs. He's good.
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:59 AM   #20
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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He's good.
Which Asian guy was that? There are just one or two to which I would be willing to apply that superlative.

Glad to hear the 50/100 is starting to go more consistently.
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Old 08-24-2011, 02:18 AM   #21
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Thanks! Sounds like it might be worth a visit someday, especially if I ever learn to ski.

Uncanny that that 4/8 to 30/60 jump is very similar to what you'd find in AC. In AC you have about a million 2/4 games, a handful of 3/6 games, one 4/8 game, and the next one up is 10/20.
For 2+ years now we've had the increase in limits here in CO and we still have this jump from 4/8 to 30/60. It's baffling to me. Can anyone really explain it?

Some have suggested that maybe there are plenty of underground 8/16, 10/20 and/or 15/30 games in Denver and they just don't want to pay the ridiculous rake in BH, but what about the 30/60 and 50/100 players? Are they simply "rake insensitive"?

And come visit Rapini!
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:13 AM   #22
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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For 2+ years now we've had the increase in limits here in CO and we still have this jump from 4/8 to 30/60. It's baffling to me. Can anyone really explain it?

Some have suggested that maybe there are plenty of underground 8/16, 10/20 and/or 15/30 games in Denver and they just don't want to pay the ridiculous rake in BH, but what about the 30/60 and 50/100 players? Are they simply "rake insensitive"?

And come visit Rapini!
30/60 is big enough that people don't care/notice the rake as much. It's evident by good tippers.

I'll be @ Lodge on Sunday ~1pm. See you there John.
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:05 AM   #23
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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30/60 is big enough that people don't care/notice the rake as much. It's evident by good tippers.
I'm sure that's true, but it doesn't really explain the phenomenon by itself.

I think what's really happening is a pretty good example of market equilibration. There are very, very few players in our market who actually can or want to play above about 15/30. And any game at or below about 15/30 is economically irrational, so only casual players and degenerate, lower-rolled gamblers will regularly demand them.

Put 30/60 out there, and both "high stakes" gamblers and rational players whose ideal limit would be anywhere from 20/40 to 100/200 can find their needs met.

Make it any higher (just two options today... 40/80 and 50/100) and you pick up frighteningly few new players on the top of the range and disinterest a slightly larger number of mid-limit players. Make it any lower (20/40 is the only realistic choice because of the aforementioned economics, I think) and you get into instabilities with an occasional (competing) 50/100 or lose a fair number of top-line players. You also start to disserve the compulsive, well-rolled gamblers who want maximum endorphin rush.

It's pretty likely, despite what I believe is generally total management incompetence at Ameristar, that they have found the optimization point for poker here given the fixed inputs of high rake, small market, Limited Gaming. Most changes to the steady state will either be transient (a few of us are bored and willing to start a 50/100 shorthanded AND enough tables are available AND dealers are available AND the 30/60 list is long enough that floor is okay with it...) or observably suboptimal over a short sample.

Finally, there are second-order dynamics that have crept in to ossify the market. The extended family -- literally, in much of the group, as I understand it -- that is the 30/60 regs has grown comfortable with the regularity of the offering. Most humans like things to be the same.

The wide separation between limits acts as a kind of filter for some of the poker room riff-raff. Most humans like class hierarchy, especially if they are atop it.

Stability and predictability have advantages for those of us who are occasionals. I don't want to wonder if there is an acceptable game each precious time I get to spend an evening playing a game I enjoy. I'm sure there are others like me, even if they donate less than I do. Highest-stakes games in any market are a fragile and sensitive thing, but consistency helps capture the market more efficiently.



I guess the only interesting questions for me are:

a) if the economy ever improves, and as professional poker players continue to fan out in desperation to find ways to continue to earn a living, will we see the 50/100 stabilize into a reliable game? I think this is quite possible, and it sounds like short-term results suggest it, too.

b) if Gaming ever figures it out -- and I think they will -- what realistic NL market will our demographic support? I have learned to enjoy limit for brief stints, but NL is a more interesting game. I play (or used to play, in many cases) 10/20, 20/40, and 25/50 NL. Even in some much larger, stronger markets I have witnessed these games wither away to a tiny remnant of what they used to be. Even what they used to be just a couple of years ago. I find myself wondering if even a 5/10 would go regularly in Black Hawk? (And just what would happen to the esteemed 30/60?)
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:13 PM   #24
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Originally Posted by Deflatermaus View Post
yeah, and I said it was a green chip game but the cage didn't have enough green for the buy-ins and a lot of players still insisted on using red chips if they had them for every bet. That was annoying.

There were 3 30/60's and one 30/60 must move. Once the must move broke they started the 50/100 which was close to not going because people don't want to play SH. We started 5 handed and in two orbits had 8 players.

Serious fun and by that I mean the people who are usually fun got all serious until they got used to the stakes.
Funny...that was going to be my next question about the red birds in a 50/100. LOL


Now back to the restrooms, I really enjoy your reports.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:29 PM   #25
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Re: Colorado Poker (Black Hawk, Central City, Cripple Creek)

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Which Asian guy was that? There are just one or two to which I would be willing to apply that superlative.

Glad to hear the 50/100 is starting to go more consistently.
Am I allowed to say names on here?

He's good in relation to the other players and most certainly a winning player in the games.

Nice market equilibration post. I can't remember the last time I've seen anyone use the word ossify in writing or spoken word.


The stable game was 20/40 for a long time but 30/60 started running which became the norm. I believe 50/100 would push out the 30/60 game if it were to run more regularly.

Last edited by Rapini; 08-24-2011 at 09:24 PM.
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