That room is never going to change until they make some top down management changes there. They have had lots of opportunities to turn that room around, but sooner or later they always shot themselves in the foot. When they stop catering to the dozen or so regulars with promos that anyways seems to disadvantage "new to the room" players, they will be well on their way.

A good example is when they started their deep stack MTTs. That first one, they literally had a line of people stretching outside the building wanting to play. Too bad they had given away the majority of the seats in promos to regulars during the week leading up to the event. They ended up turning away at least 100 (new to the room) people that day and likely just as many "not so regular" to the room people. Made me sick, and I haven't played there since, and will not play there again until they change their ways.

They keep the poker room because they can more or less fill it with their weekend tournaments (Fri/Sat night). So the cardroom manager can go to senior management and report that they had 150+ people in the room two nights during the week.

I had friends walk away from a Fort tournament because they hadn't sat live before it.

I understand (and hate) giving extra chips to seated players before tournaments, but requiring live play before a tournament?

F. Me, I guess.

I could have added on, but I'll make this a separate thought re: AZ Poker.

Harras's similarly-out-of-town room will also only be running a few games ever; but at least they treat new players kindly.

I'd better tread carefully here, but perhaps in retrospect firing the poker room manager and saying to the head of the bingo department who had never played poker before in his life, "You are now also in charge of the poker room." wasn't such a good idea after all.

I was new to the room when I went there and talked to the floor guy about the rake and promos and then played in the daily tourney and then cash games and I thought the place had a pretty good atmosphere. I don't recall seeing anything about a tourney requiring live play but the daily tournies give bonus bounties for live play. The one promo they have that keeps a lot of the same people playing is if you play 50 hrs within 2 weeks you get $200 and for 80 hrs you get $500 and they said a bunch of people do that every time. Plus you get $1 cash per hour for playing in the cash games.

Fort McDowell has a totally different vibe than CAZ (the only other casino I've been to in the area). You can tell the demographic is much different. The fort is mostly slots and some bingo. I think they have 10 tables for table games, only half of which were being used. I assume most poker players in the valley will go to CAZ just because it's closer for them. I live in Scottsdale and CAZ is 5 min from my house. The fort is about 30 min. For anyone living in Phoenix or Tempe or Glendale it's even farther. For people driving to the east side of the valley for poker why go the extra 30 min to the fort when CAZ is there with tons of action, nice poker room, a BBJ that people talk about every 5 minutes, etc. Also what was refreshing about the cash games at the fort was that people don't obsess over the BBJ and since everyone's a regular people don't complain as much when seats open up.

Gila river now has 8 more very large screen TVs along the back wall of the poker room and has opened a bar in the poker room for quick drinks. Also, the price of beer has been cut in half for seated poker players.

WAT? What room are you talking about, CAZ? I haven't heard of any of this, outside of the $1/hr we're supposed to be getting for playing the cash games but that system hasn't been working since the room opened.

Mark

He's talking about Ft. McDowell. I haven't been there for poker in a very long time so can't confirm what he's saying.

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GG, Gila River, esp the beer prices and bar, smart move, imo.

Seeing Howard Beale just use the term "GG" made my night.

Yeah I was talking about Ft. McDowell. The promo is 50 hrs within 2 weeks is $200 and 80 hrs is $500. The main problem with Ft McDowell is that it has a really bad location. If you live in Phoenix or anywhere west of the 101 loop then CAZ is much closer and has better action. If you live south of the 202 or the 10 then I think Gila River is down there. Aside from the really good promos for low limit players, there isn't much reason to go there. 95% of the time they only spread 3-6.

Just got back from Wild Horse Pass and have a few things to add, and hopefully drum up some support.

Quick brag - Table hit the BBJ on Friday night, $1041 table share. $12,499 for the high end.

First, I have to say. Three cheers to WHP for this weekend. In the 6+ years I've been playing Arizona Poker(Almost always at CA) For an overall weekend this was one of the best I've ever had. Both with players, but dealers, floor staff, wait staff. They were all very friendly, hate to say but CA has fallen so far down on this its not even funny. Played in the the 2-250 spread game all weekend. There was never less then 6k on the table all weekend, when the game did break around 6 or so both days (Fri/Sat and Sat/Sun) We played heads up or three handed, no rake no bbj drop. This morning we changed the game to 5-500 and were told the game would go if people wanted it.

This leads me to my next point, I was talking with Patty (Ex CA dealer) she is now working floor/dealing over there full time. We got talking about Omaha and mixed games. If we can get enough players up for it, they will spread a 4/8 Omaha HI (with a $60 kill, so its a 8/16 Omaha HI only game dressed in 4/8 clothes) Also with poeple there we can get a 4/8 mixed game going as well. In the half hour I talked with Patty, she is very much about making the players happy. Honestly CA would of never let us play heads up for free (no rake/no JP drop) they would of sent the players and dealer home.

This room has alot of potential and I think can do very well. If your interested in the 4/8 Omaha HI game or the 4/8 mixed please message me and we can work on setting up a game. Every day I'm there I will start lists for both games, I'm pretty much over the crap at CA. Only thing that we need to work on with WHP is the blind levels for the 2-250 game. It must be 3/5 blinds to be a good game. BB not having an option is horrid. So please get back with me so we can get this game running. 4/8 OHI is what alot of you and me are looking for.

Just for clarification - the game as it runs now is a 5-250 spread with 1/2 blinds. Minimum bring in is 5. It's usually good action. Usual preflop raise is like 15.

It used to be spread as a 2-250 game with the same blinds.

The blinds were not changed in hopes that it would not scare "baby No Limit" players away from the game. I think it's been successful in that regard. When you tell the desirable players that the blinds are 1/2, they are way more likely to play than if it's 3/5.

Recently they have also started spreading a 2-100 game as well, though it does not go every day. With the addition and growth of that game, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 5-250 game go to 2/5 or 3/5 blinds, as the newer player would have a game to get their feet wet and feed the bigger game, etc.

I would love to see a 4/8 omaha high game there.

Wow. that's clever. Limit Omaha High only that gets killed at 8.5 big bets. Based on the one time I played LOhi that would be a hilariously swingy game as long as they aren't ultra nits pf.

Thanks Quad, you are correct. I typed that up after being up for almost 48 hours, with only 4 hours sleep. You are correct Dead, I was playing the 4/8 O8 game and that had no short supply of players willing to put money in. The 4/8 at WHP does not play like the 3/6 at CA. I'm going to work my ass off to get this game spread, because CA would never do it in a million years. They don't care what the players want anymore. They have their brand and they don't like to listen very often.

The whole bring the players and we'll spread any game line doesn't work.

When WHP first opened, and they had a good chance to grab some CAZ regulars, they did that also. You would sign up for a spread game and then sit in a $3/$6 game waiting for the spread game to start. They would get 10 to 15 names and then not start the game because it would break one of the five $3/$6 games. I waited over two hours to get a spread game going twice and haven't been back since.

They need to schedule the game for a day and time, get the word out, make sure the game starts on time and the game will grow. You may have to make it rake free at the start, but you'll get the players. They could get a $5/$10 game going if they scheduled it for a 3 PM start on Saturdays.

A lot can change in a year.

I ran into that exact scenario multiple times there.... I live 25 mins past WHP and drive past WHP then 45 mins to CAZ 3 times a week because the games are always live and I don't have to sit around forever.... They are missing out!

So, change of topic, Gila is dropping 3+3?

...thank god they put a whole $1,000 or so in the jackpot every day

i would play a 4/8 mixed game if it ever got going.

They must be considering going back to 3+2 since CAZ dropped back to that.

dealer last night at CAZ told me they are now dropping 3+1 or 2+2 depending on time of day.

is this correct? forgot to have a look at the rake schedule. sounds pretty sweet if that's right.....

They have a bunch of promotions going on in October, might be part of that.

October is almost over.

I sort of remember several posts or even a thread with the theme that "Ft McDowell sucks". I'm, too, am only a tourny player, so I only pay attention to tourny play. In case anyone is interested and doesn't already know, Ft McDowell has a relatively new $120 (I think) buy-in, deep stack bounty tournament. I like the structure - 20 min blinds, and $50 per knock out bounty. They skip a couple of mid blind levels so it jumps up in a few spots, but overall I like it.

I'm still waiting for someone to come out with a $75 buy-in tourny; it's bizarre that there aren't any at that level; less than $50 or more than $100, but nothing in between that I know of.

Stephanie... who is tired and rambling and needs to go to bed to stop the insanity