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Old 04-26-2010, 03:50 AM   #201
MTDog-7
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

What stakes do they spread at the Omaha games?
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:52 AM   #202
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

They just changed the Omaha games from 3/6 and 6/12 to 4/8 and 8/16 when they opened the new casino.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:12 PM   #203
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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They just changed the Omaha games from 3/6 and 6/12 to 4/8 and 8/16 when they opened the new casino.
Thanks for the info I'm going to be in AZ for a bit so I will give the 4/8 a shot along with 1/2 250 HE. It will be nice to play somewhere where the POT LIMIT isn't capped at $300.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:24 PM   #204
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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OK I officially LOVE the new room now.

LOL

It might have something to do with me final tabling the "Last Saturday of the Month" tourney today.

Unfortunately, as usual, the entire final table wanted to chop it, and I come back from a short break to find out the other 9 have already agreed to it... so I sighed and agreed too. Probably a good move since the blinds were ridiculously huge after 6 hours of play and it would've been an all-in luckfest. I was probably a top-3 stack at that point, but there wasn't really anyone who was super short.

I still wish people would leave a little bit of the prize fund for the winner and play it out, just so I could say I won the thing.
We have done that at a number of Tourneys you should of proposed that, as a top chip stack you have more sway than the short stacks. I have found many players like that as they are assured some money and yet can play for "BRAGGING RIGHTS". A friend did that Sunday he was the big stack in a $2500 player reward type Tourney, they got heads up agreed to each take $500 and play for the remaining $1500 my friend got the $1500.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:06 PM   #205
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

MTDog where in montana u from? im from bozeman and jus recently down to phoenix
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:39 PM   #206
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We have done that at a number of Tourneys you should of proposed that, as a top chip stack you have more sway than the short stacks. I have found many players like that as they are assured some money and yet can play for "BRAGGING RIGHTS". A friend did that Sunday he was the big stack in a $2500 player reward type Tourney, they got heads up agreed to each take $500 and play for the remaining $1500 my friend got the $1500.
Well Dave the TD seemed to want to get things over with. But he was certainly correct with his statement "time is your enemy". If I had my counts correct the chip leader had right around ten big blinds and so the rest of the table was anywhere from 3bbs to 8... a sure recipe for "all in with any 2"... and variance is a beeyatch.

I stuck to my guns a few weeks ago when we got into the money at The Fort's Saturday Megastack. With 15 left, a deal was proposed to chop places 4-15 evenly, about 450 each. I argued that it was too much and that we had to stop doing chops so big... In that tourney places 11-20 can cash for 100 and go home a 30 dollar loser after 6 hours of play. I know how frustrating that is and I didn't mean we shouldn't chop but that it should be for more like 200 or 250.

I ended up agreeing to 380 for spots 4-15 just so we could get on with it, still more than I thought was right but I still felt good about putting 770 or so back into the top 3 spots. I ended up going on to win and benefitted a lot from that reduction in the chop. I bet I got more for taking it down than anyone else has this year in that event with a comparable field size just because I spoke out. Many players thanked me afterwards which made me feel good. I most assuredly understand variance and I didn't want to be the "greedy bad guy" but it worked out ok.

At CAZ tho I just didn't feel right by saying "no, I don't agree, let's play it out." One lesson I DID learn is to push hard with two tables left and steal all the blinds you can... because coming into the FT with a short stack didn't matter... but coming in with the largest stack did - in a big way. Live and learn.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:22 PM   #207
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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Many players thanked me afterwards which made me feel good. I most assuredly understand variance and I didn't want to be the "greedy bad guy" but it worked out ok.

At CAZ tho I just didn't feel right by saying "no, I don't agree, let's play it out." One lesson I DID learn is to push hard with two tables left and steal all the blinds you can... because coming into the FT with a short stack didn't matter... but coming in with the largest stack did - in a big way. Live and learn.
The MTT regulars in this area are absolutely addicted to chopping. Frankly if you are decent at playing MTT poker, its not in your benefit to allow these big and flat chops.

I remember once at the Fort back when I played MTT's... They were running a rebuy, I think it was $40 with unlimited rebuys for $20 and a $20 add-on at the end of 3 levels. It was a Friday night and there were like 80-90 runners... Get back from the rebuy break, play a level, and are down to like ~40 players and some guy starts yelling to stop the action on the tables, "STOP THE CLOCK!".

Why? Because he wanted to propose a chop... Worst part, several players agreed that we should stop and figure out a chop... Lucky the floor wouldn't have any of it.

Some of the crap I have seen is border line collusion frankly. Many of the regulars are the same people that get it down to just them and maybe one or two "outsiders" and they pressure them to chop. I have actually had people say about me when they did not know I was in hear shot... "knock him out at all costs, he doesn't chop, make sure you get him". Pretty damn hard to prove and nearly impossible to stop...
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:21 PM   #208
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

Tournament regs are so well known for collusion that I'm not sure anyone cares.

That reminds me of the story of the only final table that I have ever made back east. Day of a snowstorm I had been playing 24 hours so I didn't want to risk driving home --> 10am daily tournament. Sparsley populated with only die hard regs and a few hotel guests @70 runners. I zombie donk my way to the FT.

5 handed I asked if we could please chop it up, I was short with 5bbs, and the others had 6 to 10. Big stack didn't want to. I post bb, and all 4 limp in.
I look down at lovely 5 2 and check.

Flop 532 check, I shove, fold, Big stack who overlimped from cutoff thinks and calls. the rest fold.

CO tables AQ saying I thought you might be making a move with something like A10.

Turn 3 River Q Adios.

Right after I got my receipt from the TD, I turned around and they had agreed to a chop.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:53 PM   #209
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

I was there last weekend, here's my little TR:

I was impressed with the overall atmosphere when walking into the resort for the first time. Feels much more like a Las Vegas casino than it used to. It looks like they are still constructing some of the resort amenities (pool etc) but in general everything looked very nice.

I was with a few friends and we started playing a few table games and slot machines. It was saturday night and it was very crowded, while there were some open seats at the blackjack tables, the casino floor was quite crowded. I did notice that it was pretty dark on the casino floor but that might have just been in contrast to the non-gaming areas.

We ate at the buffet which was nothing special, but not terrible either. It was comparable to a middle/low-end vegas buffet an was smaller than I was expecting. For $25 I don't think the value was quite there.

The five of us played some $3/$6 in the new room. We were seated almost right away and the chip runners were quick. As far as the service was concerned everything seemed to be about the same as the old room, with the exception of the drink service which was impossibly slow.

I had some nits at my table that were complaining about everything, the lights, the cards, the felt the chips blah blah blah. I did notice that the tables were MUCH firmer than before and picking up the cards wasn't quite as easy as it used to be.

All in all I was impressed with the new resort and plan to go back when they've got more of the resort stuff built out, I can see a lot of locals spending a weekend there on a "staycation" once they've got the pool, spa and restaurants all up and running.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:04 PM   #210
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The MTT regulars in this area are absolutely addicted to chopping. Frankly if you are decent at playing MTT poker, its not in your benefit to allow these big and flat chops.
The reason I heard from multiple players as to why they didn't want to finish the tourney and play it out was "so we can go play some cash!"

Here they are with a legitimate shot at raking in 9500 bucks for first... probably wouldn't have taken an hour more to finish... and instead they take 2650 so "they can go play cash"? WAT??

MTT regs are retards... like they're gonna turn their 2650 into 9500 in the next hour at a 500 max table?

I guess I'm just gonna have to put my foot down and refuse all chop proposals. It only takes one player and all deals are off... so I'm gonna have to be that guy. I like to keep things friendly but not if it will potentially cost me a ton of equity like this. Gotta grow a sac and get tough with these clowns.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:38 AM   #211
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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The reason I heard from multiple players as to why they didn't want to finish the tourney and play it out was "so we can go play some cash!"

Here they are with a legitimate shot at raking in 9500 bucks for first... probably wouldn't have taken an hour more to finish... and instead they take 2650 so "they can go play cash"? WAT??

MTT regs are retards... like they're gonna turn their 2650 into 9500 in the next hour at a 500 max table?

I guess I'm just gonna have to put my foot down and refuse all chop proposals. It only takes one player and all deals are off... so I'm gonna have to be that guy. I like to keep things friendly but not if it will potentially cost me a ton of equity like this. Gotta grow a sac and get tough with these clowns.
Just stick with the idea I had of a $260 save. When you won 1st and I took second, we gave up a lot with that $440 save. $260 gives all of those regs double their buyin and they should have no complaints. Next time I am in that position it will be $260 or the original payout, whatever they want. Congrats again on beating me sir!
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:05 PM   #212
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Just stick with the idea I had of a $260 save. When you won 1st and I took second, we gave up a lot with that $440 save. $260 gives all of those regs double their buyin and they should have no complaints. Next time I am in that position it will be $260 or the original payout, whatever they want. Congrats again on beating me sir!
I've been wondering where you've been, haven't seen you playing on Saturdays... altho obv if you get knocked out early I might not see ya... and I actually got knocked out early a few weeks ago (perish the thought!)... but I sure hope to see you in the money because I already know we are completely on the same wavelength with chops. You're the only one I've seen make the argument for less... and my table was not happy with you that day. Hahahaha. But when I got back in that position a few weeks later, *I* took over your role as the bad guy. Somebody's gotta do it and crush these non 2p2 amateurs!

Hope to see ya at the Fort, I will def be there Sat. as always (except for last Saturday of the month obv). Also playing tonight to make more points for tomorrow's WSOP seat "A" finals at 1pm. I want to win a seat so bad... but at least now I can just buy in direct if I don't make top 5 tomorrow! Having a very good year so far.

Good luck!
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:13 PM   #213
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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I guess I'm just gonna have to put my foot down and refuse all chop proposals. It only takes one player and all deals are off... so I'm gonna have to be that guy. I like to keep things friendly but not if it will potentially cost me a ton of equity like this. Gotta grow a sac and get tough with these clowns.
Just be fairly warned, people are going to hate you. And all kinds of negative things can and likely will come from that. Watch your back, and watch for outright cheating. Grow a tough skin because you are going to be verbally assaulted.

Take it from someone that was that guy at the Fort for a couple of years that did not chop, period, no "saves", no chip chops, nothing. While I was never physically assaulted, it was only because of the TDs (Dave and John) where well aware of the situation and always had security there before blows were exchanged.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:23 PM   #214
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Just be fairly warned, people are going to hate you. And all kinds of negative things can and likely will come from that. Watch your back, and watch for outright cheating. Grow a tough skin because you are going to be verbally assaulted.

Take it from someone that was that guy at the Fort for a couple of years that did not chop, period, no "saves", no chip chops, nothing. While I was never physically assaulted, it was only because of the TDs (Dave and John) where well aware of the situation and always had security there before blows were exchanged.
I hear ya... altho I'm with Mike - I understand and agree with the "save" concept, but it doesn't have to be a very large amount, that's all me and Mike are arguing with these risk-avoiding regs. If they don't like it, then play better, go deeper and make the big money given to the top 3.

When I won at the Fort the second time, we did three saves thru the money. The first one was where I spoke out and reduced it to 380 apiece. When we got to 4-handed we did a third save, but it was better than any I've ever been involved in... we gave everyone 1K each, but we left an additional 1K for the winner... which of course I was lucky enough to win (AQ>AK sorry Jen!)... I'm pretty sure having a thousand buck gap between first and second place RARELY happens in that tourney. When I beat Mike (again with a lesser hand, K9>AQ, sorry dude!), there was only a 200 or so diff.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:37 PM   #215
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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I hear ya... altho I'm with Mike - I understand and agree with the "save" concept, but it doesn't have to be a very large amount, that's all me and Mike are arguing with these risk-avoiding regs. If they don't like it, then play better, go deeper and make the big money given to the top 3.
Then I guess I do not understand a "save" then... In my thinking a save is used when you are getting close to the money or are in the money but the lowest payout is less than the buy-in or typical buy-in in a rebuy. Or to state that another way, its for the players that go deep, but would still lose money because of the payout structure.

Why on earth would anyone need a "save" deal 3 times in a MTT, unless I am totally wrong on what a "save" is.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:51 PM   #216
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

I thought a save refers to when players chop it up in a tourney but they save $X and play down to a winner, and the winner gets the $X that was saved from the chop.

But I'm not a tourneydonk so I could be totally wrong.

Mark
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:18 PM   #217
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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I hear ya... altho I'm with Mike - I understand and agree with the "save" concept, but it doesn't have to be a very large amount, that's all me and Mike are arguing with these risk-avoiding regs. If they don't like it, then play better, go deeper and make the big money given to the top 3.

When I won at the Fort the second time, we did three saves thru the money. The first one was where I spoke out and reduced it to 380 apiece. When we got to 4-handed we did a third save, but it was better than any I've ever been involved in... we gave everyone 1K each, but we left an additional 1K for the winner... which of course I was lucky enough to win (AQ>AK sorry Jen!)... I'm pretty sure having a thousand buck gap between first and second place RARELY happens in that tourney. When I beat Mike (again with a lesser hand, K9>AQ, sorry dude!), there was only a 200 or so diff.
I know it's polite and all to say you're sorry, but let's be honest here. Deep down, you are not the least bit sorry you won those hands. You accomplished your goal, you won their money. You didn't drive to the casino solely to hang out and shoot the ****, you went to the casino to win as much money as you possibly could. If that means taking money from your "friends," then so be it. I honestly do understand why you say that you're sorry, but the bottom line is having a good time and winning as much money as possible. Please be honest with me, am I right or wrong here?
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:26 PM   #218
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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I know it's polite and all to say you're sorry, but let's be honest here. Deep down, you are not the least bit sorry you won those hands. You accomplished your goal, you won their money. You didn't drive to the casino solely to hang out and shoot the ****, you went to the casino to win as much money as you possibly could. If that means taking money from your "friends," then so be it. I honestly do understand why you say that you're sorry, but the bottom line is having a good time and winning as much money as possible. Please be honest with me, am I right or wrong here?
Wrong and nitty. You can be happy you won and sorry for who you won from at the same time.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:59 PM   #219
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

It is my understanding there is a rule at the Fort...once someone objects to a chop,the subject is closed. Period.
NO ONE can bring it up again unless its the person(s) who originally objected bring it back up.
Is that correct?
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:40 PM   #220
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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It is my understanding there is a rule at the Fort...once someone objects to a chop,the subject is closed. Period.
NO ONE can bring it up again unless its the person(s) who originally objected bring it back up.
Is that correct?
Can't speak to what they are doing today, but back in the day when I was playing there, it may not have been a written rule, but yes that is the way it worked.

This was a result of the abuse people like myself took from not chopping. So to cut down on the abuse and wasted time arguing about it, they just say "No chop unless the objector says OK". My favorite times was when Mike was dealing there and would make most FT's when he played, no chops possible with an employee at the FT.

Edit to add: It got to the point that if I was at the FT, Dave or John would come to the FT for their normal speech/instructions/information and end it with "And I know there is at least one person at the table that does not chop, so don't even bother to bring it up."
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:38 PM   #221
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

I'm counting down the days until I fly out to PHX for a week. Casino AZ here I come!! The bad thing is, I'm gonna have to learn how to get to the Casino again from the hotel, as corporate has changed hotels that we stay at. How is the Omaha games right now? I loved the old 3/6 last year.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:47 PM   #222
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

You should be fine w the new 4-8.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:40 PM   #223
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Re: Casino Arizona: New Casino/Poker Room/Resort Thread

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Wrong and nitty. You can be happy you won and sorry for who you won from at the same time.
I respectfully have to disagree with you about me being wrong and nitty. You don't understand what I am saying DesertCat. If you were truly 100% sorry, then why don't you give your friend his/her money back? I totally agree with being friendly, polite, and making poker friends, but the object of the game is to take/win the other persons money. Obviously, we are not going to come to an agreement here, so let's just agree to disagree. Have a nice day DC.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:48 PM   #224
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I know it's polite and all to say you're sorry, but let's be honest here. Deep down, you are not the least bit sorry you won those hands. You accomplished your goal, you won their money. You didn't drive to the casino solely to hang out and shoot the ****, you went to the casino to win as much money as you possibly could. If that means taking money from your "friends," then so be it. I honestly do understand why you say that you're sorry, but the bottom line is having a good time and winning as much money as possible. Please be honest with me, am I right or wrong here?
You are wrong. I know it is a flaw in my game not to have killer instinct.

Mike was a nice guy when we played, and I even told him before I called his allin that I was getting tired (11 hours to go thru 100 players lol) and I basically was apologizing BEFORE I made my call with K9o. Jen "Nuts" McCrackin (a Fort dealer) was very nice too when I got HU with her... she shoved AK, I instacall with AQ, board goes xxQQK... you mean to tell me you would do a fist pump, jump up and down wildly and scream and shout with her standing right there? I most definitely felt a bit sorry and was humble and contrite. She's a dealer, she took it well obv, seen it all... but I waited until I was driving home before I let loose, LOL

Believe it or not, you CAN play good poker, have fun, be friendly and respectful AND STILL WIN.

I'm not one of these "karma" types... its just not my personality to be a total dick. And I will always empathize with someone who takes a beatdown, not rub it in their face with glee.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:54 PM   #225
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It is my understanding there is a rule at the Fort...once someone objects to a chop,the subject is closed. Period.
NO ONE can bring it up again unless its the person(s) who originally objected bring it back up.
Is that correct?
I'm not sure, but it makes sense. I will ask George if he's there today... wish me luck in winning a WSOP prelim seat!! 5 seats given away today out of 150 runners (had to qualify thru the month, got 14th last night to get me into the finals).
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