doesnt CA have a dealer add-on. Tipping in a donkament that already has a dealer add on (espcially a donkament with the kind of outrageous juice CA charges) is probably not a good idea.

They had a 500k jackpot back in the day that needed quads to loose or something. I forget what the qualifier was, but it ended up being straight flush over straight flush, and I was there when it hit.

On 7K in entry fees I paid 660 in dealer tokes and I estimate I left another 340 or so in tips after making final tables.

I agree with you, if I did it again I'd say "screw you, I already tipped" but like I say, this was all new to me this year (winning) and the casino also has a way of making you feel like you're a bad person if you don't leave extra.

These are the two things that upset me most:

1. I "made" 2000 in income, but the federal IRS says I am taxed on 10,000. The itemized deduction for my "losses" (the 7K in entry fees) is almost useless since it was the only itemized deductions I have. Essentally, the personal deduction we all get is eliminated and replaced by my "losses". That is truly ridiculous and totally unfair to an amateur, recreational player.

2. The casino refuses to put the dealer toke on the receipt, meaning we cannot add those fees into our "gambling losses". NO tournament player would EVER refuse to pay the toke since you obtain a huge percentage increase in starting chips for a small percentage increase in the overall tourney cost.

Between these two factors, poker is just not worth it. The IRS would have to change the rules for amateur recreational gambling income, and the casino would have to change the rules for how they collect cold hard cash for their dealers.

Neither of these two things are happening anytime soon, if ever.

So I quit. Sadly. I LOVE poker... but I guess my poker will be confined to my "DD Poker" software and running SNG Wizard just for craps and giggles I guess... sigh

P.S. In other businesses in America, if it is found that the rules are so restrictive and unfair that they cause the average person to avoid participating in that business, THEY CHANGE THE RULES so that participation in the business is encouraged and people will flock back to it. Not in this "industry" however... nobody cares about me and my complaints... because I'm a "gambler", and that must mean I'm a bad person. How dare I take MY money (WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED ONCE) and spend it as I see fit? We'll teach him!!!!!!!! The IRS and its parent, the Treasury, is nothing but a bunch of no-good thugs.

I'm curious... for you amateur, recreational cash game players... aren't you in the same boat as tournament players? Do you need an outrageous win rate to be profitable after tips and taxes?

I swear, this exercise makes me think most people either don't claim their gambling income at all or they have invented some system (such as summing profits and losses and paying on the difference, which is legal to do if you are a "professional poker player") to make it profitable for them.

Or perhaps they are all wealthy and sit in a casino day after day for the pure fun of it and don't care about profit or loss.

I just don't understand how there are so many avid recreational players and so very few complainers about how unfair the system is rigged against us (and I don't mean the cards or the online RNG's)...

btw -- im not sure exactly what youre saying about taxes (about why deducting the 7K doesnt count)... are you saying that you wouldnt be itemizing if it werent for this so youre losing out on the standard deduction to declare the gambling losses?

Correct. I am unsure but I believe the "standard deduction" that everyone get no matter what is 5200 (actually it is 5800 this year I just looked it up). When you itemize, as you point out you no longer get the "standard" deduction but you get whetever you itemize as your deduction. In my case, my deductions rose from 5800 to 7000. WOOHOO. NOT.

Here's the worst case. Let's say I paid 5800 in entry fees and made 5800 in cashes. The IRS says I owe taxes on the 5800 because it is "income" even tho my profit is ZERO. If I'm in the 33% tax bracket then I owe almost 2000. I can itemize my "losses" up to the amount I "won"... so I can itemize the 5800, which replaces the 5800 standard deduction I would have gotten anyway... so essentially I get no deduction for my "losses" and pay the full 2000 in tax... and I end up down 2000 for the year despite breaking even at the tables.

You'd have to be a moron (or rich) to keep playing a game with THOSE rules.

Bah. Back to golf as my hobby.

Those that are playing regularly at CAZ, did you see a big upswing since the DOJ shut down online poker?

I played Friday night and Sunday afternoon and saw nothing that I would consider higher than average turnout.

But we are entering the time period where the snowbirds head back north, so if there is no noticeable change from the winter games to the summer games, that is obviously an increase in traffic.

Great point

You guys think ship it would be offended if I started using the name zip it on the board?

So after state tax, you might have lost money?

Do the casinos make you report your tourney winnings to the IRS? Just do what most people do and don't report anything.

We're in a good state where you can just plug in your itemized deduction from the federal form and get the same benefit. I learned this sunday night.

Better, they report it for you.

Oddly enough, the state tax did not change, but the federal went from an 800 refund to an 800 payment after entering my "gambling income" and itemizing my "losses"... 1600 additional federal tax. Not sure why state stayed the same but I did double check everything to make sure I did it right.

To those saying "just don't claim the income like everyone else", screw you. I have a professional license (engineer) and I am not messing up my life over something stupid like money. I am honest to a fault, and yes I realize it's not +EV to be honest in a game like poker. All the more reason to quit.

did you do your own taxes or have someone professional do them?

I just have a lot of difficulty envisioning a situation where you could be in the 33% tax bracket and not gain any other deductions by itemizing. at the very least you should be able to declare the state taxes as an itemized deduction. If you own your home, you should be able to declare property taxes and mortgage interest. You might not get the whole 5800 back in addition to your 7k gambling loss decuction, but you should get more than 0.

I would estimate that >90% of casino players report no income if they don't receive a W-2G and of those that do, the majority probably do not do it the correct way (counting every winning session as income and every losing session as a deduction). This is true for not just poker players. Compulsive slot players will have a stack of W-2Gs from jackpots over $600 throughout the year, then add them together and that is the income they report. The IRS sees this and somehow believes that every single winning "session" they had over the year was exactly one pull of a slot machine that happened to result in a jackpot over $600. Then they deduct a loss which is the exact amount of winnings since all slot players who play this much will be net losers at the end of the year(this part is done correctly). I guess the IRS doesn't question the absurdity of the net amount of the W-2Gs being equal to the total winnings because at this point, their AGI is so high that they are phased out of pretty much every possible tax benefit already so it won't make a difference to their bottom line.

Outside of the people who actually receive W-2Gs, very very few are actually reporting income. Someone who is sitting at a blackjack table in a drunken blackout at 3 in the morning is not keeping accurate records of his play. But the IRS has no way of knowing he is playing and so he gets away with it.

The gambling tax law is completely absurd. If all people felt compelled to report their gambling wins/losses the proper way, the only ones left playing would be the true sickos.

Just started digging through this thread again; any further interest in this?

I commute to Phoenix once a week (usually on Tuesday), and play 3-300 before heading home.

welp that was fun gg caz

???

What's that comment about?

Our meet-up garnered a small, friendly group but we get more ppl when leo doc visits. I don't think there's much interest w/o him, tbh.

Im barred from CAZ for partaking in an "illegal substance" in the parking lot. I had nothing else on me at the time besides the bag I was smoking out of. Also got a felony drug paraphanalia charge. I guess killing people with alcohol is alot better than waking up myself with weed. NH CAZ

Guess I should take the fifth next time because I do not think honesty paid off in this situation

Thank god the world series is coming up. I hope im not in jail so I can go

it seems like theyre pretty strict about this. I know a guy who got banned for the same thing. iiuc, they unbanned him a couple years later, but im not sure about the circumstances. I know hes friends with a ton of regs though.

moral of the story -- dive over to the lowes parking lot and get high there.

Is your court date at the rez or in scottsdale?

Check with your tax professional about filing as a pro. There are many "professions" that allow you to file as a pro if it's your intent to make money, even if it's not all or most of your income. If this is the case with poker, your results should certainly qualify you.