Wow, what year did he do that? Two or three years ago when we all saw Tom go deep in the ME? Must've been farther back than that?

What about Jim Bechtel? He never plays locally? Must've won too much in ME cashes, doesn't need to. LOL Plus, I believe I read he owns/runs a farm or something?

Hello everyone, I just moved to Tempe August 1st (good timing, I know )

I had some questions about CAZ, if someone wouldn't mind responding, I'd appreciate it a lot.

Is the $1/2 game even beatable w/ the rake? I played it twice and won $82 total in ~6 hours. The play was like $.10/.25 online, but the rake+BBJ just eats away at winnings. I kept laughing at the $2 or $3 pots when someone open limped in late position, and cbet $10 and won their $2 back.

Normally I play $3/5, but I just wanted to get used to the casino before jumping in. Is the play at $3/5 any different?

I played last sunday's $125 satty into the AZ state championship but busted ~75th/236. Sadly I went card dead and didn't hit AKs vs JJ all in pre. I was pissed and swearing as I busto'd. The play was similar to a $10 online tourney, perhaps even worse.

Are most of the nightly/monthly tourneys about this caliber of play?

What's up with the annoying $10 "dealer" bonus chips? I absolutely hate this. Let me pay the full fee, so it all shows on the receipt, instead of jacking me for an extra $10 at the table. If the managers want the tourney to be $100+35, then just make it that, and not $100+25+10 at the table.

Thanks,
Adam "nuklearwintr"

I am fairly confident the 1/2 game is beatable with the rake because all you have to do is win 1 or 2 decent sized pots in a 4 hour session to be up a few hundered.

You fail to understand how much a player like me can spew in those 4 hrs... even at LIMIT poker. LOL

But... this is why I don't play much cash... know thy limitations.

+100000000000000

These are de facto fees, not "optional"... No self-respecting tournament player is ever going to pass on 25% more chips for only 10% more buyin... SO PUT IT ON OUR DAMN RECEIPT FOR TAX PURPOSES. See the recent Allen "Chainsaw" Kessler thread on this exact topic. Casinos are screwing the players, CAZ obv no exception.

As to your first question... its not the caliber of play that's the issue... its the structure (I call them turbos)... and its the damn rake. Tues/Wed nite events are 105+25+10 (I think) which is utterly ******ed 25% rake. I don't play even tho I'd love to.

The once a month Saturday 300+30 is the only reasonable event IMO, altho I do also play the Last Saturday of Month tourney too. Lots of regs, and they love to chop at final table and not even finish the tourney... another pet peeve of mine. Tards everywhere... but still fun and friendly poker for the most part. Good Luck!

about a month ago , i recorded the # of hands and the rake at the 3/5 game. i wrote it all down on my phone for an hour:

40 hands
$210 in rake collected ($2 jackpot, $4 regular)

this was over 63 minutes.

whereas a 5/10 game will be $126 in rake for an hour of play for 9 players.

No way this game gets 38 hands per hour on average, 30 tops. So see, rake is only around $160

And they still get to play the football pool and other pools for free, because they are funded from the jackpot. What a country! Just move up to the high stakes board, and get treated like the VIP you deserve...

Lol.

No effin' way The *only* way you get a 3/5 table running this fast is if it's playing SUPER tight -- which means a lot of chops, a lot of no-flop-no-drop hands, and a *lot* of small pots. All of which means your rake calculations are way on the high side.

Second: jackpot drop is *not* rake. Rake goes to the house, jackpot drop goes to the players. Again, if you want to do this kind of stat work, you absolutely need to understand the difference.

q/q

Can't find the post but I recall Howard Beale (I think it was him) saying that the 8/16 game is the lowest limit that he considered "beatable" due to the excessive "rake" (semantics over BBJ aside, it is def "rake" to me) on games lower than that...

anyone know how many are reged for day 1? im playing day 2 on table 23 and i suck live, so i guess i will just donate money away : )

Unless you intend to take all your jackpots, promotions, and your winnings from promo-generated-traffic and donate them to the house, it is definitely *not* a semantic question. Jackpot drops are not rake. This is a matter of basic math, and something that any competent poker player should understand clearly.

q/q

255 runners today.

They are playing down to 40 players today.

Structure was a turbo. For a million dollar prizepool this should be at least a 3 day event.

I complained about the 9 am start time and got an answer that they are not allowed to use the conference rooms.

So starting at 11am or noon would need a conference room? I dont get it.

LOL I had a feeling they'd decide to play down to a certain amount of players instead of a level, even though they know it doesn't make sense

Mark

I'm looking at the google map - looks like coming from Tucson on I-10 I'd turn right on 60 towards Gilbert, then left on 101. Any better directions?

Well, if they play down to 40 today and play to the same clock point the next 2 days, no problem.

The 60 can get backed up depending upon when you are coming.

If you turn right on the 202 and then left on the 101 it is like the exact same distance, except the 202 is like south of all development, while the 60 goes right through the heart of Tempe. But as long as you aren't going during afternoon rush hour, I don't think it matters.

The dealer was dealing pretty fast, hands were playing fast, so it was slightly faster than average. Just wanted to point out an observation


Here are the numbers
I started recording at 8:58pm.
Rake amount: ($)

66666 66666 66163 66666 66663 36166 36633 61666

end time: 10:01
total: $210 i think
total hands: 40.

the $6 rake is when the pot is over $30 if im not mistaken. $1 rake is no flop.

Looks pretty standard to me, but averaged out I'd image 35 hands / hour , so itd be about $180 in rake.



edit - i think you should consider jackpot drop as rake. i would if i played that game regularly.

The EV of the football pool when it was running was something around $15 for showing up on that day. That is negligible compared to the rake being taken in (especially when they're taking in double jackpot rake). If I'm not mistaken (and this part might be wrong, so please let me know if it is), the jackpot they collect goes into a bonus pool that is up to the casino when / how they want to distribute (with a part of it going to the regular quads/AAA jackpot), and that number currently is in the 6 figures. Your EV from jackpot drops greatly depends whether or not the casino runs these promotions, whether you show up for it, and how much of the promotion $ they decide to hold onto for the future. Even showing up still subjects you to a HUGE amount of variance regarding it, and I'd just consider it as part of the rake.

These are my educated guesses obviously, so if you know more details / workings plz enlighten me

CAZ isn't paying out the extra jackpot drop, not now. They will this fall, but in the interim it serves as extra rake.

And if you pay spread limit you'll have a smaller chance of hitting a jackpot than in a limit game, so some of the jackpot drop is lost, and akin to rake.

I would not get too nitty about it though, jackpots bring in the kind of player we all want to play against. Players should consider it a marketing cost, hopefully this fall the room will be packed with players chasing big jackpots and playing football pools.

I'm so envious that ya'll are playing in the AZ State Championship event! I'm moving to Phoenix in 3 weeks and will just miss it

Stephanie

(nit: your numbers add up to $207, not $210 )

Anyway, based on my understanding of CAZ's drop structure, that means the actual numbers were:

Rake: 44444 44444 44042 44444 44442 24044 24422 40444
JP: 22222 22222 22121 22222 22221 12122 12211 21222

The total rake was $136 for 2 downs, which is almost exactly the same as CAZ's standard time charge in the higher limit non-jackpot games. It's a higher rake than Washington, lower rake than California, and lower rake than Nevada. OTOH, only the California rooms really can compete with CAZ in terms of game selection and action.

Of course, on an average 3/5 game (more like 15 hands per down), that rake will be about 25% lower due to reduced game speed (ie: around $102, or $51/down).

Anyway, not going to sidetrack this thread much further, but: I'm right


q/q

Just like you have a better chance of hitting it at 3/6 than you do at 8/16.

Thanks for the responses guys

Put me in the camp of BBJ counting as rake. My logic is that it's money taken off the table that I can't win from other players. I've never won anything from a BBJ online or live and I've been playing for 8 years, nor do I expect to at any point in my life. There's no guarantee that I'll ever break even on BBJ's, so I don't count it as a neutral cost of playing. Just my

You have never won a splash pot in eight years of playing?