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Ranges utg?? Ranges utg??

12-26-2011 , 07:16 AM
what are our ranges utg with 6-7 bbs?

would q-9s be one of them?

is there any software or program that tells ?

thanks
12-26-2011 , 08:15 AM
With or without ante? With Ante its ok. Without ante its a shove for 6bbs and close with 7bbs in my opinion.
12-26-2011 , 02:57 PM
try sng wiz but you must adjust the calling ranges of villains.
12-26-2011 , 03:45 PM
does affect our position (coming blinds) our range or we strictly play according +cev (wiz) ?
12-26-2011 , 05:18 PM
Depends
12-27-2011 , 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidManner
does affect our position (coming blinds) our range or we strictly play according +cev (wiz) ?
In theory with no significant bubble factors we should use chipev Ranges and not looser. In Practice many people shove looser than chipev to keep their Foldequity. I dont know which approach is better.
Theorywise the first approach is better because you will be shorter in the blinds and can call with more Hands. So you get more +ev Spots in the Blinds.
With the second approach you make a -ev shove from early position and then also get less +ev spots in the blinds.
12-27-2011 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeowImQh
what are our ranges utg with 6-7 bbs?

would q-9s be one of them?

is there any software or program that tells ?

thanks
no antes, fold

with antes, i shove in 45s/180s with 5-6bb, with 7-8bb its close imo (esp if 8-9 handed)

always depends on how many regs are behind me
12-28-2011 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.Hero
In theory with no significant bubble factors we should use chipev Ranges and not looser. In Practice many people shove looser than chipev to keep their Foldequity. I dont know which approach is better.
Theorywise the first approach is better because you will be shorter in the blinds and can call with more Hands. So you get more +ev Spots in the Blinds.
With the second approach you make a -ev shove from early position and then also get less +ev spots in the blinds.
posting the bb in itself is -ev (you have a negative expectation in bb/hand in the bb)

we also get more +ev shoves due to more fold equity with a bigger stack (which we would have if we shoved and got folds, or shoved/won a race etc)

(not saying shoving looser apporach is def better or w/e)
12-29-2011 , 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGClayDol
posting the bb in itself is -ev (you have a negative expectation in bb/hand in the bb)

we also get more +ev shoves due to more fold equity with a bigger stack (which we would have if we shoved and got folds, or shoved/won a race etc)

(not saying shoving looser apporach is def better or w/e)
I know that posting the BB is -ev But if you make a -ev shove from UTG you wont get so much +ev spots in the next Hand as if you dont make the -ev shove. And if you make a Call in the next Hand and win you have foldequity for shoves from Late Position too. People dont understand that shoving a marginal Hand into 8 People is not better than calling a shove from late Position with a super wide Range.
12-29-2011 , 08:30 AM
no im aware what you said is correct about being able to make more +ev calls in the bb but think you are slightly underestimating the -ev of posting the bb and more importantly the importance of fe a bit.
12-29-2011 , 10:35 AM
Maybe i misunderstand you but we have to post the bb if we fold and if we shove and win.In Chipev we lose the same EV when posting the bb regardless of our stacksize. Only with high bubblefactors we lose more EV with a small stack than with a Big Stack.
And i think you didnt understand my argument relating to foldequity.
If we can call wider in the blinds we will often have a stack with Foldequity from late Position or we bust out of the Tournament. Its the same like shoving from Early Position. Either we have a stack with foldequity or we bust out.
The difference is that we sometimes cant call if we fold from Early position and have to play a really small Stack without foldequity for an orbit and have to wait for an unexploitable +ev Hand. And we have to know what Hands we can call. So its a little bit more difficult to play than to make -ev early Position shoves.
12-29-2011 , 11:19 AM
or do you mean that we can make -ev shoves because we dont have to post the BB when we bust out of the tournament? I didnt thought about this argument. Dont know how valid it is.
12-29-2011 , 11:27 AM
conclusion? what do you suggest
12-29-2011 , 11:34 AM
Depends how many players are on the table? 9? 7?

How deep/short stacked the blinds are?

How we are perceived? (ie have we shoved the last 3 hands prior to this one)

Is it near/on bubble? If so are there any really short stacked players about to bust so we eek into the money?

Is it a 18/27/45/180 man SNG?

Basically your range is not set in stone, it is elastic and will be changing according the table dynamics (ie some of the suggestions above).

Thats why its better to post up actual hands with all the information available so we can make a more accurate decision.
12-29-2011 , 11:39 AM
okay thanks, will do next time
12-29-2011 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckrogh
Depends
This

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proudwalker
try sng wiz but you must adjust the calling ranges of villains.
This

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingandtheduck
Thats why its better to post up actual hands with all the information available so we can make a more accurate decision.
And definitely this

      
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