Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
QJs BB, played wrong? need help QJs BB, played wrong? need help

07-02-2015 , 08:31 AM
Firstly, I don't post here much, I have been a long time reader of threads and I want to get better at poker, so I have decided to post a spot that made me wonder if I could have changed something. A little background on my play style, I'm a nit at heart.

The Villain in this scenario is 24vpip/5pfr and an aggression factor of (2) over about 100 hands, he is pretty much unaware positionally, he seems to play these hands from anywhere. So I can't really narrow his range too much. I took out the very top of it, I assumed he would open with AA and KK, probably AKs/AK... I'm not actually sure if AQ is out of that range or not, which is obviously quite important. Anyway, by the time the turn hits, and he puts in such a big raise, I'm thinking he is either running a bluff, overvaluing a hand, or he has something. I think that these cards hit his range really hard, it is right in there with a bunch of stuff he would be happy to limp with but not care to raise with. I feel like I have no choice but to give up on the turn with such an overbet.

I think I have a couple questions.... (and please bare with me, I am a fish, lol).

Do you think it would be better to bet the flop, should I be leading this to see where I am? Or do you think someone with his passive stats would just call behind and I wouldn't get many clues?

Should I have check-raised the flop? as a different angle on the above question?

My problem is... I just don't want to lose a ton of chips early in a tournament, especially when there isn't much invested and I would have to play the hand out of position, it is quite a wet board and I'm just not sure how you guys would play this. I appreciate any and all feedback, if you could give me reasons for your plays or ideas, I am all ears, I am also open to any material you think would help me if you have books or threads that you think would help me out.

Thank you for all your help in advance.

    Poker Stars, $0.23 Buy-in (15/30 blinds, 4 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #36971731

    UTG+2: 1,409 (47 bb)
    MP1: 3,612 (120.4 bb)
    MP2: 2,894 (96.5 bb)
    MP3: 1,516 (50.5 bb)
    CO: 1,160 (38.7 bb)
    BTN: 1,289 (43 bb)
    SB: 1,611 (53.7 bb)
    Hero (BB): 1,349 (45 bb)
    UTG+1: 1,247 (41.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with J Q
    5 folds, CO calls 30, 2 folds, Hero checks

    Flop: (111) 8 J Q (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets 111, Hero calls 111

    Turn: (333) A (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets 1,015 and is all-in, Hero folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: 333 pot
    Final Board: 8 J Q A
    CO mucked and won 333 (188 net)
    Hero mucked J Q and lost (-145 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    07-02-2015 , 09:28 AM
    I would start with raise preflop. We are definitely above opponent range and want play bigger pot vs his weaker jx/qx what we dominate and might stack off if jxx/qxx come + this hand will flop very good for some good c/r flop with draws and often will create good double barrel spots.
    Also if we get him fold preflop it not bad result.

    Definetly put more money in on flop by leading or check raising. I think vs most players i would check raise but vs passive players might lead on bigger side.
    There is lot bad turn cards for us like diamond/8/9/T. Also we are getting called on flop by lot weaker qx/jx or draw/draw+pair hands.
    I definitely think we are missing value and not protecting our hand enough on flop.
    I think flop decision here is lot more important then preflop or turn decision. Check-call flop and check turn seem very weak and allow opponent control hand very easy by choosing how big pot will there be on turn and if he want take free card on turn or want put more money in as value/bluff vs your range.

    On turn i would not fold. I think there is enough weaker 2p or Ax/draw what get money in vs your "capped range".

    I would definitely for you recommend book Professional No-Limit Hold 'em by Matt Flynn/Ed miller. You can get it on 2+2 shop or on amazon for like 15$.
    07-02-2015 , 10:23 AM
    Kamitis..

    Thank you so much for all your advice, I am digesting it and appreciate that you took so much time to help me out. I do play too weak, I'm aware of that and it's something I need to work on.

    You think that his big bet on the turn is to blow us off a hand instead of him trying to get money in ahead? ( I think you could be right, I'm just wondering if that's your thought process)
    07-02-2015 , 12:59 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firesphere
    Kamitis..

    Thank you so much for all your advice, I am digesting it and appreciate that you took so much time to help me out. I do play too weak, I'm aware of that and it's something I need to work on.

    You think that his big bet on the turn is to blow us off a hand instead of him trying to get money in ahead? ( I think you could be right, I'm just wondering if that's your thought process)
    First i have to stress out how Unimportant (not important) turn after check/call is vs preflop/flop decisions because in reality you should never be on that turn situation.

    There definitely can be decent reasons for folding turn from someone, but i just think you have under represented your hand strength to hand like 1 pair/draw and when your range in opponent eyes is that weak it seem crazy to fold top of your range (i believe you have no much stronger hand then 2 pair in your range at turn after c/c flop).
    07-02-2015 , 05:50 PM
    A loose calling station in the CO limps and you flop top 2 pair in the BB - check raise the flop and get it in on almost any turn, not fold.
    You got into the hand with QJs hoping for a royal flush or fold? Fold QJs pre if aces scare you, you will bleed less chips in the blinds.
    Top two pair is top of your range here and as played I was not folding it on that flop.
    If V shows up having limped AQ/AJ, nice hand.
    07-02-2015 , 09:06 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IBNash
    A loose calling station in the CO limps and you flop top 2 pair in the BB - check raise the flop and get it in on almost any turn, not fold.
    You got into the hand with QJs hoping for a royal flush or fold? Fold QJs pre if aces scare you, you will bleed less chips in the blinds.
    Top two pair is top of your range here and as played I was not folding it on that flop.
    If V shows up having limped AQ/AJ, nice hand.
    He can't not get involved/fold on bb as it was limped pot.
    07-03-2015 , 12:08 AM
    agree with kamitis here.. but I'm fine with checking back pre as we will be oop. seems standard to raise flop and get it in here, also never fold turn here!

    if you had a monster hand here would you shove the turn? no way rather bet smaller and induce not scare people out. very good chance your ahead!
    07-03-2015 , 01:58 PM
    preflop: ok, no need to raise

    flop: lead to 75, don't check, as played c/r to 333, don't c/c, stack off in either scenario

    turn: as played, c/c, never fold here

          
    m