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Potential Brain Fail Potential Brain Fail

09-30-2016 , 07:16 AM
PokerStars - $3.30+$0.20|125/250 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 4,614 (VPIP: 10.53, PFR: 9.67, 3Bet Preflop: 6.99, Hands: 2,161)
Hero (SB): 6,191
BB: 4,660 (VPIP: 29.55, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 44)
UTG: 3,989 (VPIP: 12.53, PFR: 10.23, 3Bet Preflop: 5.73, Hands: 1,551)
UTG+1: 3,776 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 44)
MP: 5,855 (VPIP: 28.92, PFR: 22.37, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, Hands: 83)
MP+1: 6,871 (VPIP: 20.96, PFR: 13.46, 3Bet Preflop: 2.74, Hands: 167)
CO: 5,044 (VPIP: 16.96, PFR: 14.71, 3Bet Preflop: 7.83, Hands: 518)

8 players post ante of 25, Hero posts SB 125, BB posts BB 250

Pre Flop: (pot: 575) Hero has A 8

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 625, BB calls 375

Flop: (1,450, 2 players) 8 J 5
Hero checks, BB bets 725, Hero raises to 5,541 and is all-in, BB calls 3,285 and is all-in

I was thinking that my hand was not really strong enough to Cbet then call a shove but it might of been okay to check shove because of all the random pairs and over cards he may take a stab with along with draws and jacks? What do you think of my logic?
09-30-2016 , 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePokerBot
What do you think of my logic?
I'd remove "potential" in the title...
Thus, your hand makes sense
09-30-2016 , 11:19 AM
Is check/calling not an option?
09-30-2016 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpsey
Is check/calling not an option?
there are many options here, unfortunately I think OP chose the worst one. x/c, b/f, even jamming pre has some merit.
10-03-2016 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onehandatatime
there are many options here, unfortunately I think OP chose the worst one. x/c, b/f, even jamming pre has some merit.
I like the Limp/shove option too.
10-08-2016 , 07:30 PM
Can any one explain why my logic is so bad (in this spot and generally speaking)
10-09-2016 , 11:32 AM
Don't really know why people think its so bad, with the low spr its nice to realize your equity with these type of hands but guess it would depend on how you construct your preflop strategy and how often villain is betting.

I personally don't use a 2.5x raising strat from the sb with these eff stacks without icm involved or a specific read on the bb but i was curious and ran it through piosolver using a few different bet sizings and what ranges i would assume you are both using preflop and these are the results for our flop check/shoving range https://gyazo.com/d6e43d22d22967838d4000e3ed277f8d This is when villain is betting 35% pot on the flop, we are shoving slightly more when he chooses a bigger size obv.

But again totally depends on a number of different factors, Thought i would at least post that result and give you a better answer then the rest of the posters here just brushing it off as horrible and not explaining why.
10-10-2016 , 11:21 AM
I agree Rodge, thanks for that reply
10-11-2016 , 03:57 PM
Interesting. How often does Villain bet if checked to?

It depends what we think he does preflop but I think we can heavily discount all pairs (therefore including sets and over pairs) from villain's range - so the only thing we are behind are jacks and 85 and 85

To avoid being exploited doesn't he have to call this off with a lot of weaker 8s and even A high with A? We have 25% against the jacks though of course some of the weaker hands have 25% against us - that also goes for some of the hands we fold out.

I think the reason a lot of people think this is a brain fail is that in game you don't get called by those weaker hands a lot - which probably means OOP as the pre-flop raiser we should check-jam more flops
10-15-2016 , 07:59 PM
I came up with a similar situation so figure ill post the hand...

888 Poker - 500/1000 Ante 125 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 20,465 (VPIP: 10.36, PFR: 7.55, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 280)
BTN: 45,829 (VPIP: 27.45, PFR: 27.45, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 51)
Hero (SB): 21,818
BB: 38,720 (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 22.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 43)
UTG: 24,166 (VPIP: 17.41, PFR: 9.05, 3Bet Preflop: 4.21, Hands: 247)
UTG+1: 46,805 (VPIP: 12.24, PFR: 10.42, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 51)
MP: 33,162 (VPIP: 9.80, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 51)
MP+1: 20,620 (VPIP: 17.12, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 11.43, Hands: 294)
MP+2: 22,060 (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)

9 players post ante of 125, Hero posts SB 500, BB posts BB 1,000

Pre Flop: (pot: 2,625) Hero has K 9

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2,400, BB calls 1,400

Flop: (5,925, 2 players) J 7 9
Hero checks, BB bets 2,962, Hero raises to 19,293 and is all-in, fold,

      
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