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View Poll Results: 18 man final table approximates closely to 9 man STT?
Yes
235 34.92%
No
413 61.37%
Other (post comment)
25 3.71%

07-07-2010 , 01:34 PM
Is this shove very much -$EV if we think villain calls that wide?How tight would we need him to call?


Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1500/t3000 Blinds + t300 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Masquerade (UTG): t25965 M = 3.76
Le_Blem1 (UTG+1): t22679 M = 3.29
montana11112 (MP1): t32706 M = 4.74
janssen_goal (MP2): t50012 M = 7.25
RicKon_86 (CO): t16068 M = 2.33
Hero (BTN): t53749 M = 7.79
Koncerewicz (SB): t21707 M = 3.15
jpedromota (BB): t47114 M = 6.83

Pre Flop: (t6900) Hero is BTN with J A
3 folds, janssen_goal calls t3000, 1 fold, Hero raises to t53449 all in, 2 folds, janssen_goal calls t46712 all in

Flop: (t106324) 9 7 6 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t106324) K (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t106324) 5 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t106324
janssen_goal shows 5 5 (three of a kind, Fives)
Hero shows J A (high card Ace)
janssen_goal wins t106324
07-07-2010 , 02:44 PM
Two line checks... shover is 23/18 over 73 hands... this was 11-12 left in a 6/90 ko.. I was something like 8th or 9th at the time..

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1,600(BB) Replayer
Hero ($18,155)
BB ($15,370)
UTG ($5,497)
UTG+1 ($26,246)
CO ($27,259)
BTN ($21,022)

UTG+1 antes $200
CO antes $200
BTN antes $200
Hero antes $200
BB antes $200
UTG antes $200

Dealt to Hero A 9

UTG raises to $5,297 (AI),
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $17,955 (AI),

Hand 2

On the bubble (10 left), same sng as above.. utg is 14/8 over 77 hands.. had shoved a few times on my bb with me being short and the two guys to my right being very passive.... on the other table as I was tanking this, a guy with a shorter stack shoved and busted, so I was guaranteed to cash.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2,000(BB) Replayer
SB ($23,072)
Hero ($14,858)
UTG ($17,170)
CO ($5,944)
BTN ($52,505)

BTN antes $250
SB antes $250
Hero antes $250
UTG antes $250
CO antes $250

Dealt to Hero Q J

UTG raises to $16,920 (AI), fold, fold, fold, Hero ???
07-07-2010 , 02:50 PM
first hand of the FT 4 180,range for getting it in here?:




Poker Stars $4.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t600/t1200 Blinds + t125 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t53777 M = 18.39
UTG: t5900 M = 2.02
Hero (UTG+1): t41171 M = 14.08
UTG+2: t22148 M = 7.57
MP1: t14175 M = 4.85
MP2: t30758 M = 10.52
CO: t24407 M = 8.34
BTN: t23841 M = 8.15
SB: t53823 M = 18.40

Pre Flop: (t2925) Hero is UTG+1 with
1 fold, Hero raises to t2546, 2 folds, MP2 raises to t10800, 4 folds,
07-07-2010 , 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetwalkincheeta
Is this shove very much -$EV if we think villain calls that wide?How tight would we need him to call?


Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1500/t3000 Blinds + t300 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Masquerade (UTG): t25965 M = 3.76
Le_Blem1 (UTG+1): t22679 M = 3.29
montana11112 (MP1): t32706 M = 4.74
janssen_goal (MP2): t50012 M = 7.25
RicKon_86 (CO): t16068 M = 2.33
Hero (BTN): t53749 M = 7.79
Koncerewicz (SB): t21707 M = 3.15
jpedromota (BB): t47114 M = 6.83

Pre Flop: (t6900) Hero is BTN with J A
3 folds, janssen_goal calls t3000, 1 fold, Hero raises to t53449 all in, 2 folds, janssen_goal calls t46712 all in

Flop: (t106324) 9 7 6 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t106324) K (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t106324) 5 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t106324
janssen_goal shows 5 5 (three of a kind, Fives)
Hero shows J A (high card Ace)
janssen_goal wins t106324
supereasy shove and no ICM SPOT. he prolly calls with his Ax and KJ/KQ as well
07-07-2010 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetwalkincheeta
first hand of the FT 4 180,range for getting it in here?:




Poker Stars $4.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t600/t1200 Blinds + t125 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t53777 M = 18.39
UTG: t5900 M = 2.02
Hero (UTG+1): t41171 M = 14.08
UTG+2: t22148 M = 7.57
MP1: t14175 M = 4.85
MP2: t30758 M = 10.52
CO: t24407 M = 8.34
BTN: t23841 M = 8.15
SB: t53823 M = 18.40

Pre Flop: (t2925) Hero is UTG+1 with
1 fold, Hero raises to t2546, 2 folds, MP2 raises to t10800, 4 folds,
JJ+ AK for me. too many shortstacks and he is not folding
07-07-2010 , 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotdotdot
Two line checks... shover is 23/18 over 73 hands... this was 11-12 left in a 6/90 ko.. I was something like 8th or 9th at the time..

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1,600(BB) Replayer
Hero ($18,155)
BB ($15,370)
UTG ($5,497)
UTG+1 ($26,246)
CO ($27,259)
BTN ($21,022)

UTG+1 antes $200
CO antes $200
BTN antes $200
Hero antes $200
BB antes $200
UTG antes $200

Dealt to Hero A 9

UTG raises to $5,297 (AI),
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $17,955 (AI),

Hand 2

On the bubble (10 left), same sng as above.. utg is 14/8 over 77 hands.. had shoved a few times on my bb with me being short and the two guys to my right being very passive.... on the other table as I was tanking this, a guy with a shorter stack shoved and busted, so I was guaranteed to cash.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2,000(BB) Replayer
SB ($23,072)
Hero ($14,858)
UTG ($17,170)
CO ($5,944)
BTN ($52,505)

BTN antes $250
SB antes $250
Hero antes $250
UTG antes $250
CO antes $250

Dealt to Hero Q J

UTG raises to $16,920 (AI), fold, fold, fold, Hero ???
1) std
2) i might fold here
07-07-2010 , 04:53 PM
Nobody ITT plays anything bigger than 10$ games?

I'll help out with some coaching if anyone is interested. I started with a 200$ br in february and I've run it up to about 16k while playing part time. I started with 2$ 180s and 1$ 45s and 90s and now I play $27-60 45mans and $7-36 180s, and tourneys from like $5-100. I've never done coaching before but from what I've read so far in this thread I can definitely help you guys improve your game. Feel free to PM me if interested and we can try to work something out.

My free piece of advice to you guys, don't be a nit!
07-07-2010 , 06:38 PM
Is this too nitty here? I might call the shove by either one of them, but I've got to feel like I'm behind here.
I'd suspect A10s+ AQo+ 1010+ is this reasonable (for them I mean)?
Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t1035 M = 13.80
UTG: t1470 M = 19.60
UTG+1: t1470 M = 19.60
MP1: t805 M = 10.73
MP2: t2005 M = 26.73
Hero (CO): t1925 M = 25.67
BTN: t1160 M = 15.47
SB: t6010 M = 80.13

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is CO with J A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t100, MP1 calls t100, 1 fold, Hero raises to t425, 3 folds, UTG+1 raises to t1470 all in, MP1 calls t705 all in, 1 fold]

Also, how is my 3bet size?
07-07-2010 , 06:41 PM
Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: t1260 M = 8.40
UTG+2: t1545 M = 10.30
MP1: t2800 M = 18.67
MP2: t1930 M = 12.87
CO: t1470 M = 9.80
BTN: t2885 M = 19.23
Hero (SB): t1250 M = 8.33
BB: t1110 M = 7.40
UTG: t5985 M = 39.90

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is SB with A 5
6 folds, BTN raises to t300, Hero ... ?
07-07-2010 , 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdodger
Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t50/t100 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: t1260 M = 8.40
UTG+2: t1545 M = 10.30
MP1: t2800 M = 18.67
MP2: t1930 M = 12.87
CO: t1470 M = 9.80
BTN: t2885 M = 19.23
Hero (SB): t1250 M = 8.33
BB: t1110 M = 7.40
UTG: t5985 M = 39.90

Pre Flop: (t150) Hero is SB with A 5
6 folds, BTN raises to t300, Hero ... ?
I'm probably getting it in here but if you have reads on the player then that would help. If he's been tight then you can fold, or you can try to stop and go. If hes been opening a reasonable amount of hands or is unknown then i would probably just shove over.
07-07-2010 , 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdodger
Is this too nitty here? I might call the shove by either one of them, but I've got to feel like I'm behind here.
I'd suspect A10s+ AQo+ 1010+ is this reasonable (for them I mean)?
Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t1035 M = 13.80
UTG: t1470 M = 19.60
UTG+1: t1470 M = 19.60
MP1: t805 M = 10.73
MP2: t2005 M = 26.73
Hero (CO): t1925 M = 25.67
BTN: t1160 M = 15.47
SB: t6010 M = 80.13

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is CO with J A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t100, MP1 calls t100, 1 fold, Hero raises to t425, 3 folds, UTG+1 raises to t1470 all in, MP1 calls t705 all in, 1 fold]

Also, how is my 3bet size?
Maybe flatting pre would just be the best option here as you have position on the raiser and the first caller. Raising to around 1/5 to 1/4 of your stack and folding then is not good.
07-07-2010 , 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdodger
Is this too nitty here? I might call the shove by either one of them, but I've got to feel like I'm behind here.
I'd suspect A10s+ AQo+ 1010+ is this reasonable (for them I mean)?
Poker Stars $1.00+$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t1035 M = 13.80
UTG: t1470 M = 19.60
UTG+1: t1470 M = 19.60
MP1: t805 M = 10.73
MP2: t2005 M = 26.73
Hero (CO): t1925 M = 25.67
BTN: t1160 M = 15.47
SB: t6010 M = 80.13

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is CO with J A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t100, MP1 calls t100, 1 fold, Hero raises to t425, 3 folds, UTG+1 raises to t1470 all in, MP1 calls t705 all in, 1 fold]

Also, how is my 3bet size?
25/50 is in my opinion the hardest level to play because your not short enough for shove/fold but your too short to play a wide range of hands. And because of that, I would recommend actually being pretty nitty at this level. Also, the micro stakes sngs are harder to put a range on the hands that the higher levels so the utg+1 minraise and the MP flat can basically have a huge range of hands especially the guy who flats.

More importantly to this hand though... I pretty much never want to get AIPF with ajo until you get shorter. So to prevent you from getting in such an awkward situation theres 3 things you can do, one would be simply to fold and wait for a better opportunity, one would be to flat in position and see what the flop brings, and the other would be to 3bet a little bit smaller like 333 or 345 or 369 so that you don't commit yourself if they shove over, the problem with betting that amount is that if utg+1 calls then the guy in MP is getting good odds to flat again. So i think that actually folding or calling might be better than a 3bet here and I think that flatting is better than folding.

After the shove and call, I fold here, but the underlying problem is putting yourself in the situation.
07-07-2010 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetwalkincheeta
Is this shove very much -$EV if we think villain calls that wide?How tight would we need him to call?


Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1500/t3000 Blinds + t300 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Masquerade (UTG): t25965 M = 3.76
Le_Blem1 (UTG+1): t22679 M = 3.29
montana11112 (MP1): t32706 M = 4.74
janssen_goal (MP2): t50012 M = 7.25
RicKon_86 (CO): t16068 M = 2.33
Hero (BTN): t53749 M = 7.79
Koncerewicz (SB): t21707 M = 3.15
jpedromota (BB): t47114 M = 6.83

Pre Flop: (t6900) Hero is BTN with J A
3 folds, janssen_goal calls t3000, 1 fold, Hero raises to t53449 all in, 2 folds, janssen_goal calls t46712 all in

Flop: (t106324) 9 7 6 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t106324) K (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t106324) 5 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t106324
janssen_goal shows 5 5 (three of a kind, Fives)
Hero shows J A (high card Ace)
janssen_goal wins t106324
Quote:
Originally Posted by furo
supereasy shove and no ICM SPOT. he prolly calls with his Ax and KJ/KQ as well
this
07-08-2010 , 02:58 AM
Hand #1:

Villain is a random. What do you do on the flop?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t150/t300 Blinds + t25 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t5280 M = 7.82
UTG: t3560 M = 5.27
Hero (UTG+1): t8575 M = 12.70
UTG+2: t1135 M = 1.68
MP1: t3890 M = 5.76
MP2: t5030 M = 7.45
CO: t9260 M = 13.72
BTN: t4200 M = 6.22
SB: t4615 M = 6.84

Pre Flop: (t675) Hero is UTG+1 with Q Q
UTG calls t300, Hero raises to t900, 5 folds, SB calls t750, 2 folds

Flop: (t2625) A 8 K (2 players)
SB bets t300, Hero ???

Hand #2:

No reads on villain. This is close to the money bubble. What do you do with this hand?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t300/t600 Blinds + t50 - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t18136 M = 14.51
UTG: t485 M = 0.39
UTG+1: t9620 M = 7.70
MP: t16522 M = 13.22
CO: t21295 M = 17.04
Hero (BTN): t10356 M = 8.28
SB: t18328 M = 14.66

Pre Flop: (t1250) Hero is BTN with K Q
2 folds, MP calls t600, 1 fold, Hero ???
07-08-2010 , 03:42 AM
1. more pre and i probably just jam over that stupid bet cause you have the nut draw and he's probably bad enough to fold.

2. i shove but i always feel super gross about these spots and it could be a leak of mine.
07-08-2010 , 06:52 AM
Poker Stars $11+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t3500/t7000 Blinds + t700 - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t61160 M = 4.60
Hero (CO): t73104 M = 5.50
BTN: t93060 M = 7.00
SB: t42676 M = 3.21

Pre Flop: (t13300) Hero is CO with T J
Hero?

FINAL TABLE

If I give all three a 10% callingrange it´s a break even push.

Is that too tight? SB is reg and the other two donks.
07-08-2010 , 07:26 AM
^^ I think 10% is too tight, especially because the two shorties are in the blinds and one of them is a reg.

If your JT is suited, I'm definitely shoving.
07-08-2010 , 10:46 AM
2/180

utg2 is tag over 30 hands. no reads on CO

No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: t2825 M = 12.56
BB: t2245 M = 9.98
UTG: t1925 M = 8.56
UTG+1: t1435 M = 6.38
UTG+2: t4590 M = 20.40
MP1: t1545 M = 6.87
MP2: t1175 M = 5.22
CO: t3845 M = 17.09
Hero (BTN): t2315 M = 10.29

Pre Flop: (t225) Hero is BTN with K A
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t4590 all in, 2 folds, CO calls t3845 all in, Hero
07-08-2010 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointguard
2/180

utg2 is tag over 30 hands. no reads on CO

No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: t2825 M = 12.56
BB: t2245 M = 9.98
UTG: t1925 M = 8.56
UTG+1: t1435 M = 6.38
UTG+2: t4590 M = 20.40
MP1: t1545 M = 6.87
MP2: t1175 M = 5.22
CO: t3845 M = 17.09
Hero (BTN): t2315 M = 10.29

Pre Flop: (t225) Hero is BTN with K A
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t4590 all in, 2 folds, CO calls t3845 all in, Hero
snap call
07-08-2010 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigboy592
Nobody ITT plays anything bigger than 10$ games?

I'll help out with some coaching if anyone is interested. I started with a 200$ br in february and I've run it up to about 16k while playing part time. I started with 2$ 180s and 1$ 45s and 90s and now I play $27-60 45mans and $7-36 180s, and tourneys from like $5-100. I've never done coaching before but from what I've read so far in this thread I can definitely help you guys improve your game. Feel free to PM me if interested and we can try to work something out.

My free piece of advice to you guys, don't be a nit!


You didn't mention your sample size and ROI at any of those games.

Sure, running 200 dollars up to 16k is impressive, but what are your stats? How many games played? What's your ROI? What is your screenname/names? This is essential info.
07-08-2010 , 12:06 PM
At a final table. My image is LAG to these guys.

Hand #1:

What do you do with this hand?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t3000/t6000 Blinds + t600 - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t82422 M = 6.87
Hero (BTN): t69045 M = 5.75
SB: t33312 M = 2.78
BB: t51411 M = 4.28
UTG: t33810 M = 2.82

Pre Flop: (t12000) Hero is BTN with 5 4
2 folds, Hero ???

Hand #2:

CO is a losing player at these games. He's also a nit and has given me walks in our last two BVB hands. Do you shove here?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t3500/t7000 Blinds + t700 - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t59022 M = 4.44
Hero (BTN): t80445 M = 6.05
SB: t34011 M = 2.56
BB: t96522 M = 7.26

Pre Flop: (t13300) Hero is BTN with T A
CO raises to t58322 all in, Hero ???
07-08-2010 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fernythrills
At a final table. My image is LAG to these guys.

Hand #1:

What do you do with this hand?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t3000/t6000 Blinds + t600 - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t82422 M = 6.87
Hero (BTN): t69045 M = 5.75
SB: t33312 M = 2.78
BB: t51411 M = 4.28
UTG: t33810 M = 2.82

Pre Flop: (t12000) Hero is BTN with 5 4
2 folds, Hero ???

FOLD


Hand #2:

CO is a losing player at these games. He's also a nit and has given me walks in our last two BVB hands. Do you shove here?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t3500/t7000 Blinds + t700 - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t59022 M = 4.44
Hero (BTN): t80445 M = 6.05
SB: t34011 M = 2.56
BB: t96522 M = 7.26

Pre Flop: (t13300) Hero is BTN with T A
CO raises to t58322 all in, Hero ???

FOLD
imho
07-08-2010 , 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okerchamp
Poker Stars $11+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t3500/t7000 Blinds + t700 - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t61160 M = 4.60
Hero (CO): t73104 M = 5.50
BTN: t93060 M = 7.00
SB: t42676 M = 3.21

Pre Flop: (t13300) Hero is CO with T J
Hero?

FINAL TABLE

If I give all three a 10% callingrange it´s a break even push.

Is that too tight? SB is reg and the other two donks.


8762+ ((.315x 70000)-(.685 x 60000)).35 = 8762+ (22000-41000) .35= +1k

since u cover 2 of the ppl left, and with 1 of the ppl u'll have like 35k left if u lose, this is a clear push.
07-08-2010 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LirvA
You didn't mention your sample size and ROI at any of those games.

Sure, running 200 dollars up to 16k is impressive, but what are your stats? How many games played? What's your ROI? What is your screenname/names? This is essential info.
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...D7327.html?t=2

I would filter for the last 120 days, thats pretty much the time that I've been playing a reasonable amount and after I got coached. So 15% roi at the 45's over 1200 games, 20% at the 180s over 2400 games and a 56% roi in a handful of tourneys in there too. And stars is pretty much the only site I play on.
07-08-2010 , 04:10 PM
Am I just asking to be put in an awkward spot (i.e. getting flatted by fish) by 3x'ing this here? ... Should I welcome that or just shove it in there?

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t50 - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: t5418 M = 5.42
MP1: t5015 M = 5.01
MP2: t2350 M = 2.35
CO: t8544 M = 8.54
BTN: t6935 M = 6.93
SB: t4035 M = 4.04
BB: t8509 M = 8.51
Hero (UTG): t5770 M = 5.77

Pre Flop: (t1000) Hero is UTG with 9 9
Hero raises to t1200


Shove this? ...


Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t300/t600 Blinds + t50 - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: t7068 M = 5.65
BTN: t13675 M = 10.94
SB: t8294 M = 6.64
BB: t965 M = 0.77
UTG: t11044 M = 8.84
UTG+1: t6767 M = 5.41
Hero (MP): t5630 M = 4.50

Pre Flop: (t1250) Hero is MP with T K
2 folds, Hero???

      
m