*** MTTSNG forum HUD (HEM/PT3) discussion thread ***
10-17-2011
, 01:53 PM
10-17-2011
, 02:08 PM
10-17-2011
, 03:25 PM
10-17-2011
, 08:48 PM
Hey guys, I thought I'd post my stats just to check up on whether there are any glaring problems anyone can spot. I really appreciate your guys help. Hope this the the right forum for this.
damn.. sorry its so small. I'm new at the posting images thing. Hope it is still readable.
Last edited by TeamTrousers; 10-18-2011 at 09:28 AM.
Reason: merging two posts
10-17-2011
, 08:51 PM
10-19-2011
, 02:33 AM
10-19-2011
, 05:10 AM
Quote:
Hi poker players,
My username on stars is talbot49, I succeed pretty well in playing 15$ 180mans on stars. I decided to buy HEM and SNGwizz because I plan on some huge multi-tabling and I wanna be sure that before I do that, there is less leaks possible in my shoving/calling ranges.
Question 1:
How do I actually mark the current hand I play with HEM. I'm asking that because I know how to mark the previous hand, I just click on the last pot won, and I mark the hand. The thing is alot of time I wanna mark the hand to see if my push was ok, but when i get called and go out, I can't mark it cause the table close..
Question2:
I know alot of settings in hem are pretty much useless in playing sit and goes. That's why I only display those stats: Hands, VPIP, PFR, Steal, Fold vs steal, 3-bet, limp/fold, aggression factor. I set that in player preferences so that those are the only stats i see at a glance... But when my mouse go on the window there is so much useless information.. Ive tried to change the hud popup configuration but I dont know how to apply it on stars, just can't get rid of the default confirguration.
Question 3:
For the stats i am displaying (VPIP, PFR, Steal, Fold vs steal, 3-bet, limp/fold, aggression factor) what is the number of hands i need for each stat to be relevant? And how are the stats i get relevant. Like I know VPIP can be relevant but honestly i never really heard about that.. Which number means the guy is tight? or aggro?
Question 4:
I also think it is really important to set filters in order to know the number of BB's since regs will fold 90% of their hands early, which is normal, and start shoving as the antes comes in and stacks get short. So stats early must not be mixed with late stats. I would like to set some nice filters but I can't find where to set them on HEM. If somebody could help me on that i would higly appreciate it.. Also tell me the useful filters that you put if you play the same kind of sng's than I do.
Question 5:
So now ive ran over couple of marked hands in sit and go wizz, and I was pretty excited about it because I think my strenght is to put people on precise ranges, depending of if they are regs or not. So I could have pretty precise shoving/calling ranges with wizz for a given situation. Something really bothered me tho:
I reviewed 2 hands:
The first one was a call I made on the sb vs a btn shove from a reg. Blind were 300/600 i had a 3500 stack btn had a 5k stack. I have A8o obv i snap call, but still mark the hand because I am curious about what are the hands i should call with in that spot. Later, I go trough that hand in sngwizz, who tells me i have to fold A8 there, which was pretty funny to me and proves me that sngwizz is crap if you use the default ranges lol. Actually they said he was shoving 18%.. But he had 45's when he shoved. So I moved the "range bar" from left to right until 45's is in the range (considering 45's is his bottom range and he knows exactly which hand are higher rated than 45's.. He's probably not but still gives me a good idea I think) So the result is he would be shoving 77% of the hands from there. So A8 obv becomes a snap, and i should even call some hands like J6's or T9.
Second hand:
I am in middle position with A2, 3.5k stack blind 400/800, I push. I mark the hand to know with which hand i should shove from there. I set the player's ranges and sngwizz then tell me I have to shove top 50%. I'm like ok so what is the bottom hand in this range? 45's! I'm like what hand before I top 77% would give me 45's as the bottom hand and now top 50% is giving me the same exact thing. I figured out it's probably because of the calling ranges of my opponents that are differents in both situations and it gives same hand different strenght.. But how am I suppose to figure that out when I wanna know which % of hands i should shove or whatever?
If somebody could help me with that so I can move on, I would highly appreciate.
Also thanks in advance for all the players who'll help me with my others questions, And GL at the tables!
And GL at the tables!
My username on stars is talbot49, I succeed pretty well in playing 15$ 180mans on stars. I decided to buy HEM and SNGwizz because I plan on some huge multi-tabling and I wanna be sure that before I do that, there is less leaks possible in my shoving/calling ranges.
Question 1:
How do I actually mark the current hand I play with HEM. I'm asking that because I know how to mark the previous hand, I just click on the last pot won, and I mark the hand. The thing is alot of time I wanna mark the hand to see if my push was ok, but when i get called and go out, I can't mark it cause the table close..
Question2:
I know alot of settings in hem are pretty much useless in playing sit and goes. That's why I only display those stats: Hands, VPIP, PFR, Steal, Fold vs steal, 3-bet, limp/fold, aggression factor. I set that in player preferences so that those are the only stats i see at a glance... But when my mouse go on the window there is so much useless information.. Ive tried to change the hud popup configuration but I dont know how to apply it on stars, just can't get rid of the default confirguration.
Question 3:
For the stats i am displaying (VPIP, PFR, Steal, Fold vs steal, 3-bet, limp/fold, aggression factor) what is the number of hands i need for each stat to be relevant? And how are the stats i get relevant. Like I know VPIP can be relevant but honestly i never really heard about that.. Which number means the guy is tight? or aggro?
Question 4:
I also think it is really important to set filters in order to know the number of BB's since regs will fold 90% of their hands early, which is normal, and start shoving as the antes comes in and stacks get short. So stats early must not be mixed with late stats. I would like to set some nice filters but I can't find where to set them on HEM. If somebody could help me on that i would higly appreciate it.. Also tell me the useful filters that you put if you play the same kind of sng's than I do.
Question 5:
So now ive ran over couple of marked hands in sit and go wizz, and I was pretty excited about it because I think my strenght is to put people on precise ranges, depending of if they are regs or not. So I could have pretty precise shoving/calling ranges with wizz for a given situation. Something really bothered me tho:
I reviewed 2 hands:
The first one was a call I made on the sb vs a btn shove from a reg. Blind were 300/600 i had a 3500 stack btn had a 5k stack. I have A8o obv i snap call, but still mark the hand because I am curious about what are the hands i should call with in that spot. Later, I go trough that hand in sngwizz, who tells me i have to fold A8 there, which was pretty funny to me and proves me that sngwizz is crap if you use the default ranges lol. Actually they said he was shoving 18%.. But he had 45's when he shoved. So I moved the "range bar" from left to right until 45's is in the range (considering 45's is his bottom range and he knows exactly which hand are higher rated than 45's.. He's probably not but still gives me a good idea I think) So the result is he would be shoving 77% of the hands from there. So A8 obv becomes a snap, and i should even call some hands like J6's or T9.
Second hand:
I am in middle position with A2, 3.5k stack blind 400/800, I push. I mark the hand to know with which hand i should shove from there. I set the player's ranges and sngwizz then tell me I have to shove top 50%. I'm like ok so what is the bottom hand in this range? 45's! I'm like what hand before I top 77% would give me 45's as the bottom hand and now top 50% is giving me the same exact thing. I figured out it's probably because of the calling ranges of my opponents that are differents in both situations and it gives same hand different strenght.. But how am I suppose to figure that out when I wanna know which % of hands i should shove or whatever?
If somebody could help me with that so I can move on, I would highly appreciate.
Also thanks in advance for all the players who'll help me with my others questions, And GL at the tables!
And GL at the tables!
2) Stop putting your mouse over the HUD then.. lol, these are called "pop ups" and you can remove it all. This has never been a problem for me because I don't have any reason to randomly put my mouse over my HUD especially since it's on top of fold/call/raise etc.. That being said this info can actually be pretty useful, sometimes it's nice to have a quick glance at more specific stats or numbers, e.g. what sample size the fold to 3-bet % is, or whatever. You can remove these in the popups configuration, if it really is a problem reply to this post and I'll try make a quick screenshot how to remove it but I don't see why your mouse should be going over this enough for it to be an issue lol
3) This question is a bit too general.. And unless I misread, it sounds like you should reduce the number of stats you use, especially the more "complicated" ones because it sounds like you are saying you don't even know what the stats mean. I don't mean this in a rude way at all btw. Read a few of the other posts I made in this thread, hopefully some of the info will help you. Many of these stats only become remotely relevant over a pretty big sample, and even then most people make the mistake of misinterpreting them/over analysing them...
Things like 3-bet percentage are barely relevant over even 100 hands because 100 hands doesn't = 100 opportunities (so a guy could 3-bet 2 times in 20 opportunities and show 10% over 100 hands when he really just picked up AA twice), and they aren't filtered, meaning if you have 80 hands from 10/20 blind levels on a reg, as well as 20 hands, this stat is going to mostly be based on his 10/20 game where he is 3-betting basically the nuts only, as a standard reg.. Whereas in reality, most people are using this stat without thinking about how many hands are from early game/late game etc (basically, most players, especially regs, don't 3b light at the early levels, and will re-steal significantly wider at high blind levels)...
4) Good that you've thought about this, not sure if it's possible to be honest. For the most part you are gonna require a pretty big sample for these stats, especially filtered, to be relevant enough so imo best is just to not worry about them and rely on notes/mental notes and estimations.. It's pretty rare where one of these stats (unless in some extremely abnormal cases) would make a difference in a decision, unless it's very close in which case the EV between decisions is very close anyway (so it doesn't really matter)..
5) You are using wiz totally incorrectly so read this asap..! You most likely are using the default "$" mode, instead of cEV. Both these hands you described are relatively early in the tournament, at least pretty far away from the bubble, let alone final table. This means ICM is relatively insignificant, and generally most people agree that we should for the most part be playing cEV (chip expected value) until the final table at least (although some bubble spots we should be a bit tighter). $EV assumes the table you are playing on is the final table, and will take into account ICM for the pay jumps.. e.g. if you are using $EV for 180s, the ranges it will recommend will be based on assuming that first pays 30%, second 20%.. etc...! which simply is nowhere near true in the hands you stated..
Also, your default edge/edge in these hands was probably quite high, since the sng wiz default is high in most hands. This "edge" is there so we can shove/call a bit tighter than what is mathematically profitable because we can/should avoid taking really marginally profitable spots in general, since we can use our skill advantage over the average field to find better/more significantly profitable spots later. In general calling in close spots is worse than shoving in close spots. In general I personally always set edge at 0, and sometimes push tighter/set an edge myself later. E.g. I input a hand, it says shove 25% assuming 0 edge, I might just push 22% because of the reasons I said earlier (edge, better spots etc), but I still want to see what is mathematically profitable.
The "tax" you should give yourself (i.e. edge) should depend on what you think your skill level is (in early stages, just in general, but on the final tables specifically vs. the players on the table - so if the final table is full of decent regs, I will tax myself way less than a final table of randoms where I will fold a tonne of marginal spots).... also, the shorter we are, the less of an edge we should set/tax ourselves with. The reason is because the shorter we are, the less likely we will be able to find a better spot/more profitable shove, since we will get blinded etc and eventually blind out. Also, the shorter we are, the more we have to consider other factors other than pure cEV. For example, if we have 5BBs UTG, we have to consider the fact that we are about to be hit by the blinds, and lose a significant amount of fold equity. Also, when we shove and pick up the dead money, or shove and get called but win, we don't just win chips, we also gain additional fold equity (same as avoiding losing it I guess) which is like an "asset" in itself.
So two extreme examples, based on correct ranges you enter, if you have 5BB utg it might say cEV its profitable to shove 30%. I might shove 50% because of the reasons above. It might say shoving JTo is -50 chips, but shoving is actually going to be more profitable than folding, in the long run/for my actual $ in my cashier at the end of the day
On the other hand.. if blind level is 100/200 (no antes) and someone ships into me blind vs. blind for 6,000 (30BB) I need just under 50% equity to make this a break even cEV call. I am snap folding even if I know I have 51% equity even though that would make this profitable by around 1BB... reason being I am pretty deep, and I don't need to risk my tournament life on such a marginal (relatively speaking) edge when I can find a lot of better spots (will see many hands before I get very short/desperate).
ugh very tl;dr. also wanted to talk about something else to other people but will mention this in a following post since this was already so long
10-19-2011
, 05:24 AM
10-19-2011
, 05:54 AM
10-21-2011
, 05:18 AM
10-21-2011
, 02:48 PM
11-29-2011
, 06:35 PM
11-29-2011
, 07:26 PM
11-30-2011
, 12:02 PM
12-01-2011
, 06:08 AM
12-01-2011
, 09:03 AM
01-27-2012
, 07:09 AM
02-08-2012
, 04:32 AM
