I've just stopped using a HUD after 4 years of playing with one. The main reason being that I was getting performance/lag issues when playing anything over 20 tables and I was just timing out too much as a consequence. As a secondary consideration, I wanted to see how being forced to revert to defaults vs randoms would impact my game - e.g not making particular adjustments for loose passives vs loose aggressives. It's only been a few days so the jury is still out, but the one thing I appreciate is the time saved by not having to glance at certain stats and then make some quick adjustments based on those stats. That may only take a second per table to do, but the cumulative time saved has potentially allowed me to load a couple more tables per set. Whether the benefit of loading extra tables outweighs the benefit of having somewhat more accurate reads on randoms is something I don't have enough of a sample to know, but I'm going to continue the experiment for the time being.

Spend money on a higher processor/better computers!! also set a limit to change change stat's once over 500 hands every 100 hands and then once you get over 1k hands on a player change stats every 300 hands or so, the lags comes from the program (HM or PT3) constitanly updating stats on your hud! <- this would be general advice for anyone using a hud cash or tournies

For MTTSNG's i would set a preference to update after 35 hands and again @ 75 hands then 100 hands Etc, due to stat's for VPIP and PFR not really accurate until you get like 50 hands or so on a player!

@BrianByrne: What kind of machine are u using to 30 table on???

also HUDs are just a part of the above software - you should be using this software regardless if you have a decent sample you will alot more leaks in your game!!

A HUD is not necessary to be an amazing player in SNGs. Some of the best players don't use them. Take notes and you'll be fine. While they are sometimes a good tool to have, people that say you can't play optimally without one are wrong.

this is very true! quoted for Truthiness

You actually believe this? For ppl mass tabling mttsngs?

Spacegravy never used a HUD in the time I spent with him. Awice doesn't use a HUD. There are plenty of very successful players who don't use HUDs. What is so unbelievable about it?

I havent used a hud for the vast majority of my games either, but saying that you can be as good without a hud as with a hud (esp in these small to mid stakes games were there are so many semirandoms) is bs.

If you think you are as good without a HUD as you are with one then it sounds like you aren't using it correctly. Bad data is much worse that no data

Who is saying that?

hmmm, maybe I mis-read the post above me. In which case, I am an idiot

I think you are burning money if you don't use a HUD.

The best player I know in 9s doesnt use a HUD. The best player I know in 18s doesnt use a hud. Both have made 100k+ apiece playing SNGs. Numbers speak for themselves. I have not personally conversed with the best 180s player but I'd almost be willing to bet he doesnt use a HUD. The numbers speak for themselves. If you absolutely MUST have one to be good, then it's a crutch, and you need to work on your game.

I know plenty of pros who make 100k+ that use HUDs what is your point?You know Doyle Brunson was once the best poker player in the world way before any of the latest math theories to do with poker ever existed.Does this mean that it is sound logic to say "Don't read harrington on hold'em because I know one of the best poker players in the world and he has never even heard of that book before".Doyle would have been better back in the day if he had all of the available resources we have now and I feel your friends, no matter how good they are would be better if they used a HUD.Nanonoku uses a hud BTW and has made over 2 million.It really doesn't matter what someone has or hasn't made as that is being result orientated but what does matter is sound logic and I believe it is pretty sound logic to suggest that the more information I have on someone the better I am going to be able to understand how they play and the better I am able to understand how they play the easier it is going to be for me to apply more accurate strategies to make them a losing player against myself.

Also I am not really sure what you are implying here.I didn't say that I would not be a winning player without a HUD.I implied that you are losing information without a HUD (ATT to steal is really important so can tell how wide someone is stealing blind, fold to steal is important because want to know their call range, VP$IP and over a large sample 3bet and fold to 3bet).I don't see any downside to using a HUD.I mean just because I have statistics on someone doesn't mean I lose sight of game dynamics.It is just another piece of information that helps me make a decision and that information is based on the players previous actions.Implying that using a HUD is not beneficial is like saying you should forget everything your opponents did when you played them before because may weigh your decision towards a potentially inaccurate result, which is just another way of telling me you know statistics deviate.I would obviously not bet my life on someones 3bet stats but given the right sample size and situation I will certainly take it into account and I feel it has value.

I agree, that's why I use a HUD because on top of game dynamics I like to use certain numbers to influence my play.

Lol yes you can win and be very good without a HUD but 99%+ these guys would benefit in someway or another (even if very, very, very minor effect on bottom line/roi/profits) from using one, especially when mass tabling.. I have played up to 50 tables of 180s at peak times without a HUD and it was fine/no problem, but there are definitely spots where close decisions could have been made a little better if I had info on a random (e.g. if AQ is close in a spot, without a HUD I have no reads if I don't recognise him/see a VIP status/whatever but if this happens to be one of the times this guy is 50/20 over 50 hands then I can get it in very happily or whatever). I think it was awice that said a hud would be difficult to even look at when 50 tabling and I agree..

I really, really don't think you can argue with this. I agree 100% you can win, you can win HEAPS without using one but what the others said is def true. In rare cases if you are actually playing few enough tables so you can tile and watch players then maybe it's close enough with/without a HUD to the point where it's negligible, but that's about it. Yes, I have heard of people tiling 30~ tables or whatever, but it's indisputeably it would make things easier.

Again, to be clear, I know you can win (a lot) and be a top winner etc etc but it's going to help more than a factor of 0.... This isn't bias either, I'm basically neutral between using it or not and I think it would affect my roi by a couple % at most since it's almost only useful in very close spots (and therefore spots where EV between decisions is close - pretty important/interesting fact if you haven't thought about "close spots" before), but fairly rarely (never?) is there a spot where a guys HUD is so absurd that I would change a STANDARD decision to something else.

I'm aware of everything you said. I agree with most of it. None of that applies to the quote you made that says if you don't use one you are burning money. Many times a HUD is not applicable because too many tables are being played and using a HUD just isn't feasible. If the choice is between dropping my tables down and using one, or not using a HUD and making more per hour, I will not use one. So in that instance, (which is probably the number one reason that people that win that don't use one) choosing not to use one and take notes on players instead is actually a money generating decision, not a money burning one. Not all things that are great in theory pan out IRL.

These are the statements that basically say that the SMALL advantage you gain from using one doesn't compensate for the money you lose by:

1. Having to play less tables.
2. Making decisions on stats that you don't know to be completely accurate.
3. The time used per individual hand decision that adds up if you consult your info a lot while playing which causes you to also have to play less tables.

In a vacuum I completely agree that it would increase your ROI and help you make better decisions. However poker is about making the most MONEY and I don't think there is significant proof that having a HUD increases profits or not having one decreases profits for a mass-tabler. Just my opinion of course.

Oh ya fwiw I completely agree with you and I think I tried to make that clear

I know, I just wanted to borrow some things from your post to help me explain better because according to mikeal_DH, I'm illiterate.

It's true, he can't read a board to save his life

sigh you just couldn't help yourself, could you?

Neccessetiy (lol spelling)

The only HUD stats I have up are VPIP, PFR and #hands. It's just used to quickly catagorise regs, fish and those in between.