Hey guys, i ran this hand on ICMizer and 3bet-shoving gives a very small profit. As an optional move, i thought about 3bet-calling vs initial plus the other shorty and folding vs the two big stacks. Anyone who has an idea on how we can calculate this and what software we need? Is ICMizer good for that or maybe HRC is better?

doesn't matter what software you use. it's important to have a good estimation of the ranges.

If ICMizes gives a small profit, then it's worth it. Also, did u put the correct gametype? I know the feeling when you have to push with marginal +EV in a FT spot.

We need the prize structure in this tourney to helo you calculate if it's a +EV.

At a glance, i'd 3b light/fold, especially if i've seen MP doing some r/f before but this is just the way i'd play if i had no time for ICM/BF calcs.

Thx for the response mate. Yes i put the correct game type and for the prize pool i entered something around $1,500 which is a normal prize pool for a $3rb.

For the opener's range i entered something around 30% which was his MP opening percentage and the result i get for shoving was around +$0.20.

I thought about 3bet folding vs the 2 big stacks because you can't 3bet fold vs opener. You are kinda committed and i don't think it will be a good fold. But vs the 2 big stacks it makes more sense since they are never 4betting light in that spot.

I was just wondering if there is a way to calculate a complex situation like this one, where you are folding against some players and calling some others.

That is probably a better move than shoving since your stack size is not that short and it means you can get away from your hand when one of the two big stacks 4-bets. I think you're right about calling the original raiser's 4-bet shove if you 3-bet but that could depend on stats/reads. If he is the type of villain who never 4-bets light then 3-bet folding is fine but like I said you would need a specific read for this. I alsthink your hand is too strong to flat 5 handed so I would go with the line you suggested above.

ya hand is so read/flow based. Not a fan of jamming his range should be pretty strong. I think I flat a lot.

We can't expect that we are getting a lot of folds from MP so I'd go for a flat and see the flop, but it depends on your reads, if you know he is folding to 3-bets a lot we can 3-bet a ****load of hands in this spot.

Flat is good too I think

Wow, 3 guys voting for flatting. I didn't expect that Thx a lot everybody for sharing your opinion.

I disagree with flatting because initial raiser's stack is pretty shallow and i don't think, with so short effective stacks (19bb's), that we play good postflop. Plus, we are creating a great squeeze spot, so since we flat i don't think that you are planning to call any player's shove, right? I think we're losing value that way.

I would prefer the 3-bet call vs initial and sb and 3bet-fold vs the other two players. What i wanted to know is if there is any way to calculate this equation = how much will we earn if we do the above move!

Of course there is a way to calculate it but i think it is too complicated and it is supposed that you assign ranges as perfect as it can be, to have an accurate number of EV. Thus, my take is 3bet and reevaluate as i said earlier.

Both flatting and 3/betting re-evaluating have merits based on your own image/game flow/reads on opponent. 19 BB's is deep for a 3r ft. If you 3 bet you want to make it around 33kish. If you flat your going to merge close spots like this along with premiums like AA KK QQ. Yes you create a squeeze spot but, still very few players will squeeze light along with most likely being in position fairly deep at a ft. No clue how to calculate it so read based the hand

imo the rest of the high stacks cant really call you here unless they have the nuts, esp if low stack was kinda lower (he is already pretty close to 10bbs) they would have to fold TT/AKo according to ICM vs a solid 3bet jam range. Besides that, calling might seem "safer" but I think it gets complex on a lot of boards as we might get to fold a big % of equity if not the best hand postflop or even gii while dominated. Not enough room for 3bet/folding either imo as having a 3bet/fold range here can be exploitable. So I would just jam this type of hands there while I know its +EV, (am also wondering how "small" is the profit given from icmizer in that spot)

btw I didnt know you are into this forum thats mostly why I clicked on your post after I read gogitos to double check you are the guy I know but then decided to share my thoughts on your hand ^^. Feel free to PM me if you d be interested discussing some HHs or maybe do some reviews together. GL at the tables.

lol and just noticed a guy who answered ITT is CEZ-R ... guess I should start visiting this section more often again

I support flatting

I think that is exactly what i thought on the hand too

PM'd you...

Most regs aren't that aware of icm by jamming highly unlikely you fold out AK or TT because if you had a premium had like AA KK QQ you wouldn't just jam that many bb's you would 3/b or flat. So they can take that range out so they are stuck with 77 88 99 1010 JJ AK AQ (maybe AJ QK) where TT and AK play well against.

I also like flatting here

OP would you snap jam TT here?
Flatting sounds easy, but I'd r/f.

Yes against this opener i would definetily snap shove 77+ and probably fold 66.