Hi,

Ive been studying some gto and defending theory. Wonder what your thoughs are on this.

Situation:

Hero on the B, opens 2bb, villain in the bigblind 3bets to 5bb. Now i want to know what our 4bet value:bluff range should be in order for villain to not 5bet shove any 2 cards and make a profit.

So say we 4bet 14bb and villain shoves 50bb (say for instance we are 50bb deep).

Now villain risks 45bb in order to win 22.5bb. In order words: his bet to pot ratio is 45/22.5 or 2.0.

the minimum defense frequency is defined as: 1 / ((bet/pot)+1).
MDF: 33%

This means we should call the 5bet shove at least 33% so villain can not 5bet shove us with any two cards. So our 4bet value : bluff ratio is 1:2.

So far correct?

Now lets fill in some ranges:

5bet call range for hero: AQ,AJS,99+ (5.43%).
our 4bet bluff range should now consist of 10.86%.

For example: A5s-A2s, K5s-K2s, Q5s-Q2s, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, A5o-A2o, K3o-K2o

Which makes our total 4bet range vs a blind 3bet around 16%. Does this seem right to you guys? Or am i making some serous logical mistakes?

ps. i am assuming villain does not call 4bets oop.

interesting thread. I do not have time to give you my point of view, but will come back to this later.

btw. i dont think sngs and mtts are good for applying gto strat. You can and should play exploitative most of the time, simply because you will not be in the similar spot vs regs often enough.

Can you explain this part:

5bet call range for hero: AQ,AJS,99+ (5.43%).

didn't understand what you mean by 5bet call.

Our 4bet range consists of a 4bet bluff part (which we will fold against the 5bet) and a 4bet value part ( which we will call the 5bet). So this 5bet call range is the 4bet value range. Abit unclear i agree.

Yeah. but i think i might be a good exercise. And it might be a good starting point. In game adjusting (ie making exploitive plays) based on villains tendencies.

I think you both have a point in the sense that GTO isnt aplicable on Micro/Low stakes MTTSNGs and is a lot better to just apply an explitable strategy but for that we need to define a "core strategy" from where we´ll be adjusting/adapting maximizing our EV and that "core strategy" is GTO, you won be able to adapt/adjust effectivly if you dont have like a startup point from where you´re adapting/adjusting from, my 2cc.

micro strat is: multibarrel 1/3 pot range vs good regs when the board fovours you.
dont bluff fish
valueown 2/3 3/4 vs calling station
how simple is that ^^

GTO isn't just about playing people many times. If you accidentally sat down at the wrong table and found yourself heads up for one hand with Dan Coleman before you could click sit out next BB, you would still want to play GTO against him.

THanks to frogman who pointed out 1 minor and 1 major error:

minor: i counted the 2bb raise from the original raiser twice.

major. the 5bet bluffs always have some equity. i made the mistake of using the same method for 3bet bluffing to find out 4bet bluffing. But 4bet bluffs have no equity when shoved on (cause they fold) and 5bet bluffs do have equity cause they cant fold.

Turns out we need to defend at least 65% against shoves when we 4bet. So our value:bluff ratio becomes 2:1 instead of 1:2.