FT $7 /45 - don't trust my wiz edge setting - MTTSNG -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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FT $7 /45 - don't trust my wiz edge setting

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06-12-2012 , 05:20 AM

Chindo_Nights

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 994

ITM last place 45man

simple call? - never know how to set the edge on shortstack like this - and also don't know how ICM affects our decision here.

flipping at best but getting decent price... and we have NO chips and a pair against a pretty wide range

Simple fold? - we are flipping at best and could be miles behind a pair?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 7 Tournament, 400/800 Blinds 50 Ante (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t4654)
SB (t17830)
Hero (BB) (t3190)
UTG (t3591)
MP1 (t10992)
MP2 (t23882)
CO (t3361)

Hero's M: 2.06

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2

, 2

3 folds, CO bets t3311 (All-In), 2 folds, Hero ..........

06-12-2012 , 05:22 AM

MangoBall

adept

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 809

Id call.

06-12-2012 , 05:48 AM

Fishfillet

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 22

Any reads on CO?

REG or relieved fish happy to have made the money?

Any REG aiming for the win (high Risk/Reward) & relived Fish (happy to have made the money) will shove VERY wide here

Thus, against a Pair, Yes, your way behind. Against his range you should be ahead (my Cut-Feeling but no tools at hand atm)...?

What says wiz if you give him 45% P-Range and SB 35% C-Range? If these numbers are completly rubbish i'll have to study Ranges in % again :-)

06-12-2012 , 05:56 AM

Chindo_Nights

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 994

sorry, no reads, was like 2nd hand of FT and I'd just been coolered for most of my 19bb stack

06-12-2012 , 07:05 AM

furo

deviation of equilibrium

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 29,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoBall

Id call.

me too, snap.

06-12-2012 , 07:49 AM

Chindo_Nights

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 994

ok cool ,I did snap and only thought about it after

06-12-2012 , 09:04 AM

CChinaman

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 574

well u got 800 of 3190 in the middle already right?

you got nearly 1/3 Ur stack in the middle and got no folding equity
after if you folded this hand. your flipping here most the times vs any two overs obviously and beat by any pair. gotta call and take a flip.

or if your a scared player, you fold to move up one more spot hoping that the other short stack wakes up with something decent and gets cracked before you reach your BB again.

06-12-2012 , 09:48 AM

Chindo_Nights

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 994

So what are we setting our edge to here to assess - like -0.15?

06-12-2012 , 10:59 AM

Robinho2611

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,329

Tough but got to call.
Certainly not a "snap" though. Call gently.

06-12-2012 , 11:24 AM

#10

Longy2

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 204

Deffo calling, though it is a kind of a sigh call.

Wiz has lots of faults when it comes to 45man fts imo. There are many other consideration as well as the numbers it spits out imo. Maintaining a stack with fold equity, what position you and the other short stacks are at the table etc.

06-12-2012 , 11:33 AM

#11

Chindo_Nights

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 994

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longy2

sure, but this stuff we have a handle on (hopefully) - occasionally it comes down to pure numbers

06-12-2012 , 11:36 AM

#12

Longy2

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 204

Yeah but those numbers vary by situation and stack size. Taking as much as -1% edge spot utg can be correct in extreme situations and turning down a -.01 spot on the button can be correct etc.

Setting an edge is far too limiting imo and we should use numbers as a guide and think about everything else that wiz can't analyse after that.

06-13-2012 , 07:48 AM

#13

SngNit

banned

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 480

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chindo_Nights

So what are we setting our edge to here to assess - like -0.15?

Way too little. -0.5 would be deemed acceptable here shorty vs shorty. But pretty sure this is a +ev call anyway. Youre getting 2 to 1 so call with roughy the same range you think he's on.

06-14-2012 , 08:38 AM

#14

BadBreaker

newbie

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21

on a purely cEV basis, this has to be a call - it's +cEV even if he's only shoving top 5% of hands (99+, AQ+) and with like 4BBs here I think we can safely assume he's shoving wider than that. I guess the question then is how ICM affects our decision - would love someone to illustrate this as while I understand the concept (you should turn down +cEV spots sometimes because they are -$EV), I don't know exactly how to calculate this based on the chipstacks and payouts.

06-14-2012 , 05:29 PM

#15

SngNit

banned

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 480

It's +$ev so you don't gots to worry.

06-14-2012 , 06:22 PM

#16

Pghfan987

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,936

Call or play a different form of SNG. If you don't call here, what, you're just going to fold for another orbit unless you pick up a monster, hoping to take 6th place or something? Not good.

06-14-2012 , 06:32 PM

#17

Chindo_Nights

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 994

sure, I snapped, but I was interested in the reasoning behind decisions posted ITT

06-14-2012 , 06:33 PM

#18

El_Padroni

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,344

Snap call with ducks, my favorite hand.

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