This is an example for 45 players (FTP structure) with 100 runs and a 20% expected ROI :

- light blue : worst/best profit at any point
- blue : avarage deviation , chances to run between both lines should be 50% .
- black : expected ROI




I did that to compare variance for SNG / SNGMTT / HU and getting a grasp of variance in generall . Im not an expert in programming such stuff , but if i find some time I might ad 180 player .

Hi. Could you tell me your Hud setup in 180s? Are you able to work out in real time wether a play is +$ev? If so you are sick.

What do you think is a good ROI at 15$, 30$, 60$ 18 mans? Advice for someone learning? SNG Wiz vs powertools? Thanks, great thread so far.

So in light of both of these posts, would you say that the cEV $EV convergence point (for lack of a better way of putting it - I get how there is no real convergence point) is at 15 players? Or does the cEV $EV difference playout more gradually, to say, 18 players or more?

I guess what I'm asking is does the $EV difference effectively become meaningless at 15 players, or are there still $EV considerations beyond that?

Edit: I see MUD hasn't been back in a while, I'm open to input from anyone

hey, just noticed this thread here and ran through the whole thread. Got a few questions:

1. If you could go back in time and start over again, would you pick mtt sngs as the starting point (i realize you probably played other games besides this, but i assume these are the first games you seriously grinded for good cash)?

2. Why did you only go for elite in 2008 and not any other years? Did your game deteriorate or improve during your elite run?

3. I've heard the argument from people that the wsop main event is so soft, that if you have a backround in push fold from 45's or 180s and play tag, you will be +ev. Do you agree or disagree with this?

4. If you do relocate, what do you plan to play?

5. Why didn't you ever grind the $75 45's on ftp more when regs were hitting 40%+ rois? do you think the structure differences just make it way too tough to remember how to play vs. stars? I never won a dime in them and wish I hadn't seen how much per game other 'ok' regs on ftp were making.

Always was fun watching you crush and seeing your success.

Saw you said you were playing a good amount of live poker now. Have been doing the same lately just small circuit events and 1/2. Obv not the same type of games you are playing in im sure, but do you have any advice or tips that you have picked up after logging in a decent amount of hours at the casinos?

What is your siblings doing now that BF hit? I remember awhile back you saying quasi was your brother and you had a sister coming up in poker.

Who do you give big thanks to for helping your game the most??? Players that you discussed hands with and looked for advice from??

Appreciated whenever you posted on rebelsofpoker...wish it was still around...those were the glory days

''Haven't really watched many SNG or MTT videos. The people who I found inspiring were those with work ethic and the right mindset. Jorj95, Boku87, MiTurtle, shaundeeb, etc.''

How would you describe that ''right mindset''?

Really interesting read and help full, did you hit any road blocks in your learning process to get to the top of your game and how did you handle getting over them.

Hi,
My question to best 45man player ever :
Ive been getting pretty huge swings and roi under 10% on $3,5 45mans and I was really angry, like I was taking all the little +cEV spots etc... and now after thousands games my friend and very strong reg tells me "oh its not ok that you push K2s from UTG with antes for 10bb. Its +cEV but not enough, you should be getting like +SB chips in this spot at least. No wonder you have swings"
So whats ur opinion on how many +cEV spots should i leave. I understand all those things like I have to make -cEV shove UTG with 5BB or if blinds are getting up... that with 12players there is some kind of ICM too.. etc. But solely the "keeping myself alive to use my edge over other players later"
For example wiz says UTG / no ante / 10bb push is ok with something like 99 AJo ATs KTs QTs JTs ... Ive been told it should be more like 99 AJo ATs KJs.
And UTG, ante / 10bb push can be SUPER WIDE in wiz, like any suited king, most suited queens... but I´ve been told I should push like A8s+ here ?

-Playing against random/bad players should I no brain push 100% range from both SB and BTN for 6-10bb ?

and bonus question : Should I be more flippin friendly in 180turbos (for the purpose of making huge stack because 180 is more like MTT where that is important as I understand ? I´ve heard that many times. So in 180s I would (10bb , utg , ante) push any suited ace for example ? Even though in 45man it would be A8s ?

Im back guys sorry.

I just suggested using a 18 man as a tool to see how important ICM is w/ 10-14 people left, b/c even very good players make a mistake of using cEV at that point.

As of right now there is no good tool to do equity calculations w/ 2 tables left so its important to get a intuitive feel for ICM in thtose spots

I dont even use the default ranges as a guide. Just completely ignore them and put in your reads for ranges. 180 and 45 mans are all about reads on calling and shoving ranges. So that is the most important thing for everyone to pay attention too. And its easy, just watch. I mean we dont have to worry about guy's turn check/raising ranges b/c it matters so little compared to noticing hes shoving too wide from the CO

No it is not essential to be profitable, But it is essential to maximize your profitability. Same goes for the other things mentioned

how do you build your reads on other regs?

What is the average play time for a 180's $8-$15 if you're a decent player?

I'd like to add that those 180's nowadays are pretty reg infested imo. Even the 3.5 rebuys are starting to "dry out". There are still many bad players in the 3.5 of course but comparing to 2008-2009 its a huge difference. If you don't have a sick volume and a good patience with variance, its really mentally destructive to play these .

I completely agree with the above statement. I use to play $2 180s when I was micro grinding for a living and the variance destroyed me to the point where I almost had to resort to go back to flipping burgers at McDonald's just to get by. The 180s are in my opinion officially dead at this point because the games have been solved and everyone plays nearly optimal now especially in terms of $ICM. I have started splashing around in heads up cash and I advise others to do the same because there are so many more donks at the mid-stake levels you can literally print money

Haha

That's becuase the american's/French and Italian's are gone little value else all other nations are solid!!

Indeed :P. I trippled my hourly rate when I went to HU cash from 180's. But I had to learn a lot before though. Now I just play SNG's occasionally for the fun of it.

Why would you need to ask how long they go for, if you have played enough of them to make a 'qualified' statement about the softness of the fields? I don't get it.

I still play MTT's regularly and I see some guys with 30 000 games played sometimes at OPR. At first I was shocked but I realised most of them were 180's of course . So its just out of curiousity, how many tables they have to play to achieve that many e t c.

when looking at cEV spots in wiz...do you always set the edge to zero or more like 1/2 sb or something?

Hope it is not over yet.

What do you think about playing tables stacked vs. tiled? How have you managed it?

What number of tables did you usually play?

You are utg 9max no ante 5BBs, what is your pushing range? (uknown table)