Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
3bet shove by reg with 35 bb 3bet shove by reg with 35 bb

03-16-2012 , 10:02 AM
3better is a reg,he has 30+ bbs? i dont see how ppl ship 30 bbs with 99+ as theyl get a fold most of the time but also dont see him shipping really light here.

best play?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker Hand Converter from PokerConverter.com

saw flop

MP1 (t2334)
Hero (MP2) (t1650)
CO (t1350)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1465)
BB (t1760)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1640)

Hero's M: 22.00

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9, 9
3 folds, Hero bets t150, 3 folds, BB raises to t1760 (All-In), Hero ?
03-16-2012 , 10:13 AM
I fold vs Reg all the time. He will never have lower pp in his range. So you are flipping or crushed.
I think he has AK,99-JJ here most of the time. And a bad Reg has also QQ in his Range, because he doesnt want you to flat a 3bet and then see a AKX Flop.
03-16-2012 , 12:07 PM
Mmmmm, in this case i think its a lot more close than it appear especially considering villain its a REG and we can narrow his range down a lot more accurate, for instance, i believe we can asume he´s not doing this with TT+ (Maybe he´s pushing TTs some of the time but def not JJ+), if he had any of those holding he would 3bet commit OP to like 550-600. From my prespective, he´s pushing a hand he doesnt want a call from since he will be out of position post flop, hence i believe he´s holding something like 88/99/TT/AJs/AQ/AK.
Not saying its a call or a fold, just that its a lot more closer than it appear.
03-16-2012 , 01:45 PM
some regs suck and most regs only have a value range here he is Ajss, 88+ at widest imo and usually never AJss,88 so this is a snapfold unless u know special tendencies of reg.
03-16-2012 , 11:48 PM
Sigh fold 99 call TT+
03-17-2012 , 09:27 AM
you are flipping
03-17-2012 , 03:38 PM
Ye i called as i gave him the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't shove here with qq,kk, or aces

he of course had queens.

took note of it
03-17-2012 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potamito
Mmmmm, in this case i think its a lot more close than it appear especially considering villain its a REG and we can narrow his range down a lot more accurate, for instance, i believe we can asume he´s not doing this with TT+ (Maybe he´s pushing TTs some of the time but def not JJ+), if he had any of those holding he would 3bet commit OP to like 550-600. From my prespective, he´s pushing a hand he doesnt want a call from since he will be out of position post flop, hence i believe he´s holding something like 88/99/TT/AJs/AQ/AK.
Not saying its a call or a fold, just that its a lot more closer than it appear.
that was my exact thinking

i thought at worse im flipping
03-20-2012 , 05:59 AM
But if he knows you are a reg, and he knows you know he is a reg, his line is good tbh(balancing). How many hands do you have on him out of curiosity ?
03-20-2012 , 06:55 AM
call cause you can take some hands out of his range that crush you, if he does this with QQ+ as well make a note for next time.
03-20-2012 , 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForexTrader
But if he knows you are a reg, and he knows you know he is a reg, his line is good tbh(balancing). How many hands do you have on him out of curiosity ?
no its awful.
he should rather have a 3b/f range cause balancing a 30BB+ 3bshoving range is bull****.
03-20-2012 , 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by furo
no its awful.
he should rather have a 3b/f range cause balancing a 30BB+ 3bshoving range is bull****.
why is it awful ? tbh, i don't agree.

let's assume he knows you are a reg and the only possibilities are 3betting(not shoving) and shoving.

if he 3bets you, you will fold all the range that he beats with QQ, but if he 3bet shoves it looks like AK, AQo/s. He has fold equity vs you and if you call he has some equity. And he achieve exactly what he wanted: a call from a smaller pp, because you(180 reg) know that he doesn't play his 3bet valuerange like that.

maybe my thinking is off, open for discussion
03-20-2012 , 07:55 AM
I see regs shoving QQ+, AK all the time even to a single raise.Think they dont 3bet a lot with premiums. I think even folding JJ at this blind level might be correct depends on reads and reg. So 99 I fold every time to reg
03-20-2012 , 08:07 AM
There's tons of regs to snap off to here. Just depends who they are.
03-20-2012 , 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForexTrader
why is it awful ? tbh, i don't agree.
do you know what balancing is?
try balancing a 30BB shoving range with these positions vs his standard opening range preante and figure out what hands you can profitably shove.
put him on a calling range of TT+/AK with 50% AQ/99 combinations and 25% of AJs/88 spitecall combinations
come back when you did the math.

this 30+BB shove is never balanced tho, so 99 is never ever a fold vs regs.
03-20-2012 , 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForexTrader
why is it awful ? tbh, i don't agree.

let's assume he knows you are a reg and the only possibilities are 3betting(not shoving) and shoving.

if he 3bets you, you will fold all the range that he beats with QQ, but if he 3bet shoves it looks like AK, AQo/s. He has fold equity vs you and if you call he has some equity. And he achieve exactly what he wanted: a call from a smaller pp, because you(180 reg) know that he doesn't play his 3bet valuerange like that.

maybe my thinking is off, open for discussion
Agree with this. Can't find any flaw in this. Why not to push QQ if we know we can get called.
But can we get called.. Can't use it much. Vs. certain players obv and with certain history with them. If we go all in and raise a lot this can work, hardly if we have been tight. On the other hand, 3betting would work too if we've been aggressive and tight, so all in would be for balancing only. But the opponent with 99 would have to be actually kinda bad for this because why would he flip. Flipping is bad in this stage of the tournament. So I think it works vs. some bingo players (might be regs) or else we'd lose value.

The player with 99 would lose 112.5 chips on average if he would opt not to flip and fold, he'd gain 150 he steals the blinds next blind level. So not worth it. At least for me I think.




PS:
Furo said it is okay to call with 99, so if he'd play versus himself I couldn't understand why he wouldn't push QQ on the BB there.
03-20-2012 , 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by musaire
Agree with this. Can't find any flaw in this. Why not to push QQ if we know we can get called.

PS:
Furo said it is okay to call with 99, so if he'd play versus himself I couldn't understand why he wouldn't push QQ on the BB there.
ye lol i open like 40-50% of hands in this spot so gl catching me when i have a top 5% hand and call your shove 10% of the time when you have a top 1.5% hand.
this will happen alooooooot

but since you want to know how i would react vs a 3b vs a 3bshove

if i know his 3b range is balanced (he never 3bshoves) he will 3b/f here alot (Ax blockers, broadway blockers) vs a ~40-50% opening range so my 4b range gets relatively wide (for value and as a bluff) so he makes alot more chips 3b/c valuehands
+ i still have to r/f quite alot of hands vs the 3b even if i know he will 3b/f frequenty so his 3b is profitable with blockers.
03-20-2012 , 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by furo
ye lol i open like 40-50% of hands in this spot so gl catching me when i have a top 5% hand and call your shove 10% of the time when you have a top 1.5% hand.
this will happen alooooooot

but since you want to know how i would react vs a 3b vs a 3bshove

if i know his 3b range is balanced (he never 3bshoves) he will 3b/f here alot (Ax blockers, broadway blockers) vs a ~40-50% opening range so my 4b range gets relatively wide (for value and as a bluff) so he makes alot more chips 3b/c valuehands
+ i still have to r/f quite alot of hands vs the 3b even if i know he will 3b/f frequenty so his 3b is profitable with blockers.
Wow it gets complicated haha.
03-20-2012 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mynameis69
3better is a reg,he has 30+ bbs? i dont see how ppl ship 30 bbs with 99+ as theyl get a fold most of the time but also dont see him shipping really light here.

best play?
Start by changing your note on him from "reg" to "bad reg".

I'd call with TT for sure, 99 seems close.
03-20-2012 , 11:49 AM
shove 35BB pre form BB? well, that's a bad reg. I immediately mark these guys as weak if I see them do it (and of course take a note that they push top range here).
I think Harrington did the math about pushing QQ pre and it turned out that it's a -Ev play with those blinds (75/150 is the level when this play was breakeven as far as i can remember)
how do you know he is a reg? how many hands do you have on him?
03-20-2012 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMenCypher
shove 35BB pre form BB? well, that's a bad reg. I immediately mark these guys as weak if I see them do it (and of course take a note that they push top range here).
I think Harrington did the math about pushing QQ pre and it turned out that it's a -Ev play with those blinds (75/150 is the level when this play was breakeven as far as i can remember)
how do you know he is a reg? how many hands do you have on him?
400- never said he was a good reg tho,didnt have much reads and no notes on him even tho i hve 400 handon him

      
m