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MTTSNG Discussion and analysis of MTTSNGs.

 
 
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Old 12-07-2016, 02:27 AM   #1
stacker604
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$3.5 18 man - early stages - JTo on QJ9 board

Hey guys,
I played this hand aggressively with middle pair and an open ended straight draw, OOP to one opponent. I check raised all in. Is this an overplay? Or the right way to do things?

I can't say that this is my standard way of playing this spot, but it's how it got played this particular time.



PokerStars - 10/20 Ante 3 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 74.85 BB (VPIP: 9.38, PFR: 3.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
BTN: 74.35 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
SB: 88.1 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (BB): 66.45 BB
UTG: 74.85 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
UTG+1: 74.85 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
MP: 74.85 BB (VPIP: 22.95, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 61)
MP+1: 74.85 BB (VPIP: 18.95, PFR: 16.48, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 96)
MP+2: 71.85 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)

9 players post ante of 0.15 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.85 BB) Hero has J T

fold, fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, MP+2 calls 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (7.85 BB, 3 players) 9 Q J
Hero checks, MP bets 8 BB, fold, Hero raises to 64.3 BB and is all-in, MP calls 56.3 BB

Turn: (136.45 BB, 2 players) A

River: (136.45 BB, 2 players) 2

Hero shows J T (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 27%, Flop 27%, Turn 32%)
MP shows T Q (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 73%, Flop 73%, Turn 68%)
MP wins 136.45 BB
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:28 AM   #2
ICrushSNGs22
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Re: $3.5 18 man - early stages - JTo on QJ9 board

It's an overshove. I like these plays with these kind of hands, though, stacks are too deep here.
Also here's another reason why I think you shouldn't do it in this spot:
- Villain seems to have decent stats
- This board is a very bad board for him to cbet as a bluff. That means that he probably has a really strong range here, meaning you have less fold equity with your shove, making the shove itself a lot worse
- another factor is that he has bet pot. Betting pot in this spot, into 2 players, on this flop, means to me that he won't fold to your shove, if ever.
- the only reason why you wanna shove as a semi bluff is to increase your equity (by creating fold equity to win the pot without showdown). Since you have next to no fold ewuity here, this makes the shove worse.

As for how I'd play, I think I fold here, eventhough it seems very weak, I don't expect to get much more value if I do hit my straight, and I don't expect to have a lot of equity other than the straightdraw (maybe another 10, however even that wouldn't fully satisfy me playing postflop and facing another big bet).
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:18 AM   #3
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Re: $3.5 18 man - early stages - JTo on QJ9 board

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICrushSNGs22 View Post
It's an overshove. I like these plays with these kind of hands, though, stacks are too deep here.
Also here's another reason why I think you shouldn't do it in this spot:
- Villain seems to have decent stats
- This board is a very bad board for him to cbet as a bluff. That means that he probably has a really strong range here, meaning you have less fold equity with your shove, making the shove itself a lot worse
- another factor is that he has bet pot. Betting pot in this spot, into 2 players, on this flop, means to me that he won't fold to your shove, if ever.
- the only reason why you wanna shove as a semi bluff is to increase your equity (by creating fold equity to win the pot without showdown). Since you have next to no fold ewuity here, this makes the shove worse.

As for how I'd play, I think I fold here, eventhough it seems very weak, I don't expect to get much more value if I do hit my straight, and I don't expect to have a lot of equity other than the straightdraw (maybe another 10, however even that wouldn't fully satisfy me playing postflop and facing another big bet).
OK, great analysis. Thanks man!
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:18 AM   #4
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Re: $3.5 18 man - early stages - JTo on QJ9 board

check jamming 65bbs to win 10% of your stack is never a "standard" or anyway remotely good way to do things. either flat or check raise/eval.
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:06 PM   #5
onehandatatime
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Re: $3.5 18 man - early stages - JTo on QJ9 board

Calling seems best here, as was mentioned jamming 65bbs to win 10% of your stack is not ideal. Call and evaluate is a better line IMO. There's just too much information indicating that villain probably wont fold to your shove.
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Old 12-09-2016, 03:04 AM   #6
stacker604
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Re: $3.5 18 man - early stages - JTo on QJ9 board

Ya guys. Definitely a total overplay by me and not one I normally do, but at least your analysis totally breaks down exactly why its bad, instead of me using "my feel" to tell me that it's bad.
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Old 12-13-2016, 04:43 PM   #7
LektorAJ
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Re: $3.5 18 man - early stages - JTo on QJ9 board

Come on guys it's not 10% of his stack. Given the alternative is calling then there is nearly 24 in the pot and he is jamming another 57 on top. It is still an overshove though - if you had flopped a straight you would raise to about 23-24BBs so the same sizing would be right with another hand.

I would just call this anyway.

In this kind of situation the main thing you have is a J - a medium strength hand good for checking and calling/bluff catching rather than a strong hand for value betting or a weak hand for bluffing. The reason you mostly check or call with medium strength hands is that any aggressive action just folds out weaker hands you were already beating anyway and puts in money behind to the stronger hands - whereas bets with the nuts get in money against weaker hands and bets with air hands can (sometimes) bluff out enough stronger hands to compensate for the times they get called.

Draws are secondary to hand strength - they are a way of deciding which weak hands to bluff and which to fold, and sometimes for which medium strength hands to fold and which to get stubborn with (as is the case in this hand where the draw probably influenced villain to look you up with top pair 3rd kicker - he could afford to be wrong more often).

Last edited by LektorAJ; 12-13-2016 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:47 AM   #8
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Re: $3.5 18 man - early stages - JTo on QJ9 board

look at the villains sizing. He overbets very wet flop vs 2 players and bb that connects with this structure a lot. It's clear that you don't have the best hand here. x/c seems standard
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