$2.50 180 shove or r/f-r/c - MTTSNG -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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$2.50 180 shove or r/f-r/c

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10-19-2011 , 12:46 PM

moneybag09

adept

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,121

Whas the best play here when its folded to us, shoving seems a bit to much 24bbs deep but its unexploitable, r/c any villian but the BB seems better, but id rather shove, i accidently folded this hand, found it on a review

Poker Stars, $2.28 Buy-in (125/250 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BB: 5,760 (23 bb)
UTG+1: 1,800 (7.2 bb)
UTG+2: 1,110 (4.4 bb)
MP1: 6,640 (26.6 bb)
Hero (MP2): 7,485 (29.9 bb)
MP3: 2,315 (9.3 bb)
CO: 2,175 (8.7 bb)
BTN: 2,600 (10.4 bb)
SB: 4,260 (17 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6

10-19-2011 , 12:55 PM

HoleInOne11

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,260

I'd just shove this. I feel like the big stacks would fold so often it would be profitable and obv your happy for the shorties to call you. r/f is okay against the bigger stacks too but in game i would just shove

10-19-2011 , 01:12 PM

moneybag09

adept

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,121

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD Klinkz

yeah i like the shove better aswell

10-19-2011 , 03:43 PM

OMGClayDol

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11,060

Raise/call any villain but the BB (and probably the SB too usually) is definitely fine

10-19-2011 , 08:46 PM

itscml

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,723

I have a definite preference for jamming, since, as a point of theory, maximizing our fold equity is best, and our hand is too strong to r/f, and too weak to r/c.

Clay's approach is interesting, but I don't trust myself to be that precise and it's unfortunate to fold when they resteal with AJo or w/e.

10-19-2011 , 09:27 PM

cgjor

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 389

i just push and pray, dont like raising here at all.

10-19-2011 , 09:33 PM

collincapone

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 806

Is fold pre an option? I know I've done it in spots like this with the awkward stack sizes.

10-19-2011 , 10:38 PM

OMGClayDol

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11,060

Yes, fold pre is for sure an option. My "approach" is basically one of OPs options, except I might fold to SB too. Also, villain/s that we fold to could have AK, could have AQ AJ KQs whatever but when we raise, even with pot odds, once they are all in with a range of say 77+ ATs AJo (just random estimate/guess of a typicalish range) we don't have the equity to call. It's like if someone ships a range of 55+ exactly into us, we fold 66 happily even though he "could" have 55

10-20-2011 , 06:15 AM

mckrogh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 6,495

Raise/decide.......

10-20-2011 , 07:14 AM

#10

jamit

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 361

imo far too deep with the blinds to shove small pair from MP. you have to fold to sb and bb if they reshove, which is fine, you have 29bb...don't needlessly risk it.

10-20-2011 , 09:20 AM

#11

roger1111

adept

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 981

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGClayDol

Raise/call any villain but the BB (and probably the SB too usually) is definitely fine

What if MP2 and BTN shove, do we still call now versus two villains?

Last edited by roger1111; 10-20-2011 at 09:21 AM. Reason: added

10-20-2011 , 12:18 PM

#12

jamit

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 361

its close but you prob have to call. you will have 25%+ equity in the pot and without doing the maths i reckon you have the overlay from blinds and antes that you need.

i could be wrong though and at t250 villains wont be shoving super light

Last edited by jamit; 10-20-2011 at 12:24 PM.

10-20-2011 , 12:34 PM

#13

Casper-PT

stranger

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6

r/f to the bb, r/c all other

10-20-2011 , 07:21 PM

#14

OMGClayDol

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11,060

No if two villains jam you can happily fold, forgot to mention this.... One good thing about raise/decide is if two or more villains wake up with a hand you can easily get away. Sometimes in spots that are standard to just jam AJ you can still fold if you raise and two randoms rejam - you will save quite a bit in those situations etc

10-20-2011 , 08:51 PM

#15

jamit

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 361

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGClayDol

folding is definitely an option - you likely have 4 overs and are not a favourite. that said, if you give first shover a reasonable range of

55+, A9s+, KJs+, ATo+, KQo

then rejammer a range of

99+, AJs+, AQo+

you still have approx 26% equity in the hand.

if you raised to 600 initially, there is 6115 in the pot and it costs you 2000 to call. You are taking an ok price to call there - giving yourself a shot at a 40bb stack. I don't know, maybe i fold most of the time in game but calling isn't terrible imo.

10-20-2011 , 09:11 PM

#16

OMGClayDol

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11,060

Yeah your equity could be a close call but I think both ranges are a little too wide and it's probably more realistically something like (esp if they are randoms, they won't resteal too wide)

66+ ATs AJo
99+ AQo+ AJs

vs which you will have considerably less equity. eitherway it's not like a super easy fold and calling isn't ridic, you're right about that

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